What other things will dosing lanthanum chloride affect?

Daniel@R2R · Oct 21, 2020

I've started dosing lanthanum chloride to reduce PO4, and as it turns out, I seem to be dealing with PO4 leaching out of the rocks, etc. which means I'm in for a longer term battle here than I originally expected. The LaCl3 is working well in dealing with the PO4, but I had seen a comment in another thread about it having an affect on alk, and I was wondering what other impacts I'm likely to experience as I do this.

Additional relevant info: The form of LaCl I'm dosing is Phosphate Rx. I don't have many corals in the system at present and all livestock seems fine so far. I just want to be sure I'm watching the things I should be watching. My dose is based on the directions. My PO4 this morning was .7, so I dosed about 18 drops (enough to reduce a little more than .5 PO4 in my 50g tank).

CCauthers · Oct 21, 2020

Not sure, but following along

Sleeping Giant · Oct 21, 2020

Daniel@R2R said:
I've started dosing lanthanum chloride to reduce PO4, and as it turns out, I seem to be dealing with PO4 leaching out of the rocks, etc. which means I'm in for a longer term battle here than I originally expected. The LaCl3 is working well in dealing with the PO4, but I had seen a comment in another thread about it having an affect on alk, and I was wondering what other impacts I'm likely to experience as I do this.

Additional relevant info: The form of LaCl I'm dosing is Phosphate Rx. I don't have many corals in the system at present and all livestock seems fine so far. I just want to be sure I'm watching the things I should be watching. My dose is based on the directions. My PO4 this morning was .7, so I dosed about 18 drops (enough to reduce a little more than .5 PO4 in my 50g tank).

I added 20 drops in my 75 gallon, my phosphate was 200 ppb or .613 ppm before dosing, and was the same 2 days later. I think I'm having the same issue as you, leaching phosphates. I'm going to wait until next week to dose again. I'm interested in knowing what issues phosphate Rx will create.

Ben Pedersen · Oct 21, 2020

I have heard people dose it right into their skimmers... I assume this facilitates removing the phosphate precipitant out of the water.

I have also wondered if there are any potential negative side affects and what to look for.

Larry L · Oct 21, 2020

It can definitely affect alkalinity, not sure what else:

Lanthanum Chloride and GFO Effects

I've been curious for a long time if there is any concrete data regarding the depletion of alkalinity as a result of the use of lanthanum chloride or GFO. More specifically, do the relative concentrations of phosphate and carbonate play a role in how much the carbonate concentration is affected...

www.reef2reef.com

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 21, 2020

Yes, precipitation of lanthanum carbonate will reduce alkalinity. Aside from concerns that some folks have about the precipitated particles irritating fish, I'm not sure there are other demonstrated problems, but I do expect the lanthanum is binding into coral skeletons in place of calcium. Is that a concern? Probably not, but I'm not certain.

josephxsxn · Oct 21, 2020

While dosing LC I felt that I saw a noticeable amount of alk disappearing when I tried to push from .13ppm to .03ppm. I stopped using it to handle anything below .13 and just accept that as were I end up. My goal longer term is to calculate my daily dose of LC to keep it stable around .13... I am still pretty green with it but using a 1 micron sock has lead to no issues when my livestock was in my tank and not in QT.

SDK · Oct 21, 2020

I’m not sure about longer term dosing and/or higher Alkalinity systems, but if it lowered my Alk at all it was an amount not detectable on my test kit.

I keep a lower Alk tank and use Tropic Marin Pro Reef. It stays fairly rock steady at 8 dkh.

My phosphate had crept up to about .7 ppm, and I lowered it to less than .1 ppm over three days. My PO4 has stayed low and I have not needed to use the lanthanum chloride again.

I did a complete suite of testing before and after the treatment and did not find any parameter changes. Alk still tested around 8 as per usual and has continued to do so.

Daniel@R2R · Oct 21, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Yes, precipitation of lanthanum carbonate will reduce alkalinity. Aside from concerns that some folks have about the precipitated particles irritating fish, I'm not sure there are other demonstrated problems, but I do expect the lanthanum is binding into coral skeletons in place of calcium. Is that a concern? Probably not, but I'm not certain.

Is alk the only thing I should watch?

ajjw0828 · Oct 21, 2020

IMO I don't think my SPS like it. Feel like they have paled in color a bit since using it. I recently stopped and the color is coming back. my phosphates just want to naturally be at .20 and the corals don't seem to mind it in fact they color up nicely. I just feel like there is slower growth with phosphate that high.

Maximitsurugi · Oct 22, 2020

I and a few friends pass around a never ending bottle of seaklear lacl. I drip it via a hospital drip bag into my overflow that leads to a big 5 micron sock i bought off Dudadiesel. If you drip too fast, youll suck po4 out of the surrounding water and alk. I havent noticed an alk drop though.

Flocculant never seems to make it past the sock and at this point, months later, i am forced to dose po4 as none is in my rock. Im dosing 0.1 per day and i still get 0.00 a few hours later. Talk about a double edged sword.

laverda · Oct 23, 2020

It is my understanding if your Po4 gets too low it will cause calcium to participate out, which can cause breathing problems of some fish. Also dosing too much to the tank directly can cause breathing problem.s for some fish. It is worse when it starts participating Ca and can kill sensitive fish. I have used it for any years but at half the recommended dose into my over flow which feed my filter socks and skimmer. My socks will clog up noticeably fasted when dosing LC. I also get more skimmate.

SDK · Oct 23, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Yes, precipitation of lanthanum carbonate will reduce alkalinity. Aside from concerns that some folks have about the precipitated particles irritating fish, I'm not sure there are other demonstrated problems, but I do expect the lanthanum is binding into coral skeletons in place of calcium. Is that a concern? Probably not, but I'm not certain.

Randy- Can you comment on any potential relationship between PO4 and PH. One thing I did notice is that since lowering the PO4 I’m not getting as much of a PH drop at night.

This has been a nagging issue for me for a few months that just went away after treatment with LACL. It could be a coincidence, but that seems unlikely.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 23, 2020

Daniel@R2R said:
Is alk the only thing I should watch?

And fish, but not anything else I'm aware of.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 23, 2020

SDK said:
Randy- Can you comment on any potential relationship between PO4 and PH. One thing I did notice is that since lowering the PO4 I’m not getting as much of a PH drop at night.

This has been a nagging issue for me for a few months that just went away after treatment with LACL. It could be a coincidence, but that seems unlikely.

I don't see a rationale for a relationship between lower phosphate and higher night pH. Folks looking really closely may see a pH lowering when dosing lanthanum chloride because removing PO4--- and CO3-- will tend to lower pH.

SDK · Oct 23, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I don't see a rationale for a relationship between lower phosphate and higher night pH. Folks looking really closely may see a pH lowering when dosing lanthanum chloride because removing PO4--- and CO3-- will tend to lower pH.

Thank you for the reply....

I could not find any evidence of a relationship either. Just an odd coincidence I guess...

sixty_reefer · Oct 23, 2020

Something that hasn’t been mentioned yet on this thread is that lanthanum chloride is dangerous for the fish, it can cause cause fish to die as it can cause breathing issues, I would keep a filter sock on the output of the skimmer just to be safe

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 23, 2020

sixty_reefer said:
Something that hasn’t been mentioned yet on this thread is that lanthanum chloride is dangerous for the fish, it can cause cause fish to die as it can cause breathing issues, I would keep a filter sock on the output of the skimmer just to be safe

I think I mentioned fish as a possible concern.