what return pump??

Prozium · Mar 29, 2010

ok, I have little knowledge of how sumps are set up so please give all the the info you think I need....

I am doing a much needed upgrade from a 30g breeder to a 150g tank. I don't exactly know how sumps are set up, so here's my plan, let me know if it will work please.

I plan to have the tank gravity feed the sump then have a return pump (duh, lol) with a Ball Valve on each side, so I can stop the water from flowing if I need to do maintenance and/or when I buy/make a better sump. As it stands I will be either using the 30g, or a 10g I have in my garage to act as a sump just for the skimmer for the time being, that I will up grade as soon as I save a little money...

what pump should I get for a return?
will a Mag Drive 5 work, or is it too weak?

lvsuckerfish · Mar 29, 2010

I would go with the 30 gal sump as a 10 gallon will not be benifical to the system other then a place for water to over flow on to the floor.

pump wise I would say min mag12 by the head pressure you are about 900 gph roughly. or a eheihm 1262 which is very reliable little less flow though.

Prozium · Mar 29, 2010

so I need to look at max head more then GPH?

so would a pump of, let's say max head 13.5' and 1620gph would be good?

AZDesertRat · Mar 29, 2010

The pumps flow rate at your head should be 3-5x the display tanks volume to keep the velocity down in the sump and lessen the chance of microbubbles being carried back to the display. I would recommend a Ocean Runner 3500 or Eheim 1262 in that order. Both are very reliable, energy efficient, low heat producers and do not have restart problems once shut off.
I would not put a valve on the inlet side of the pump if it is going to be submerged in the sump, only the discharge side to throttle flows if needed. The inlet will be open or a flooded suction and will draw water from the return section of the sump. The sump will be filled from a overflow box or standpipe in the display which again should not need a valve as it will be placed close to the surface so it surface skims and breaks suction when the power is shut off. You never want to throttle the flow from the overflow as it will always balance out with the return pump flow which is the regulator.

lazyreefer · Mar 29, 2010

I use a MAG 18 on a 120, about a 5' head with two return lines splitting into four Loc-Lines....

The suggested pump on that setup was a MAG 12 or equal I think, but once you start getting some algae and whatnot growing in the lines, or you split a reactor or something off the return line(s), going bigger seems to work out okay. Heck, I wish I had more flow.....

Bubbles never seem to be a problem with a properly baffled 30+ gallon sump.....

mr_X · Mar 29, 2010

3-5 times the display volume? so if you have a 100 gallon tank, you want a 300-500gph return? if that's what you are saying, i disagree. what is your overflow(s) rated for?
you have to take into account your in-sump skimmer if you have one as well. also your heaters should be in the sump, correct? at least the bulk of your reactors/heaters/skimmer, will all be in the sump. these will all have to be fed with the correct amount of water to be efficient.

i use a pair of mag7s on a 150 with a 55 as a sump (customers tank), and it's not very much flow at all. i don't think you'll get much in the way of microbubbles in a 30 sump with a 1200+-gph pump.
now for brands, you'll probably get a hundred opinions. i like external return pumps. if you don't want to drill the tank, this is not an option.
i would look for the gph you want/need, and the lowest wattage pump that will push this gph, providing it's not a crap brand. the crap brands aren't going to be efficient anyway, so i wouldn't worry too much about that.

AZDesertRat · Mar 29, 2010

It is much more efficient to use a smaller return pump and supplement flows in the display with energy efficient high flow powerheads at only a few watts apiece. The new Koralia 1400 is controller friendly and moves 1400 GPH at only 6 actual watts. Larger returns consume lots of power and create signifciantly more heat. Remember these pumps are running 24/7/365 so power consumption is a big issue. My OR 3500 runs at an actual 58 watts and has more than enough flow in my 100G with a 30G sump. The difference is made up with a closed loop through a Oceans Motions Squirt two way and Koralia 1400's. The combination gives me around 4500 GPH or very random flow or 2.5x the flow as the single Mag 18 at only 123 actual watts using a Kill A Watt meter compared to 145 advertised for the Mag 18.

5x the display volume is what everyone recommends today for a return pump, this is a well published number on all the forums.

Troylee · Mar 29, 2010

go with a laguna 1500.... i run a 2900 with the atb 3200 volute and couldnt be happier... around 3000 gph threw my sump at 65 watts is nothing...

i have a sps tank with 2 little ph's fwiw.. i like high flow sumps myself.. i used to run a dart return but the wattage is a little crazy @134watts so i got a laguna...

mr_X · Mar 29, 2010

i'm not stating anything about flow in the display. i'm talking about a return pump.
who is "everyone"?
and as far as "published" do you mean typed by hobbyists? you can find different opinions all over the internet. there is no scientific evidence to prove one works better than the other. i'm simply stating flow like a chiller company states flow rates for their chillers- you need to put enough water through the sump for all of your components to work correctly.
let's say for instance you have a skimmer with a 500 gph pump on it. meanwhile you are only pumping 250 gph or so through the sump. it's not going to be as efficient at removing waste.
i completely agree that most of the flow in the display should be handled by a closed loop and/or powerheads.

AZDesertRat · Mar 29, 2010

troylee, have you tested the Lagunas with a Kill A Watt meter? I found over the years many pump manufacturers are not very accurate on their power consumption or flow either one. I did significant testing on pumps a few years ago using the Kill A Watt meter, a 10 psi pressure gauge, valves, graduated containers, thermometers and a 1" water flow meter to determine how they stack up against the competition. Ocean Runners and Eheims were very accurate as far as head and watts both while others like Quiet Ones, Via Aquas, Rios and Mags were not as accurate.

Kill A Watt meters can be found for about $15 some places and are a really nice tool for fine tuning your systems. I have cut my power requirements drastically by going with more efficient and fewer pumps and changing light ballasts and bulbs. Now if I could just afford LED lighting!

AZDesertRat · Mar 29, 2010

Flow through a skimmer is usually done by a recirculation pump and depend on multiple passes so sump flow is not that critical.

"Everyone" is the majority of the posters on these threads who like myself have been in this hobby for over 25 years. Do some research and you will find the 5x number is the standard answer all over, I didn't make it up, I promise. As always you mileage will vary and there is no right or wrong but it pays to stick with experienced or informed answers.

mfinn · Mar 29, 2010

I'm pretty happy with my Ocean Runner pump I'm using as a main return on my zoanthid tank and the Eheim 1262 I use as chiller feed pump on my softy tank.
Both great pumps.