What the heck am I doing wrong with SPS?

[kdx7214]

Okay, I ordered Salifert tests for alkalinity/carbonate hardness, and calcium. Should be here in a couple of days. Not sure what to do about the lighting except to move extra rock into the DT. An extra Gyre will have to wait for funds though.

 

[PotatoPig]

Should be here in a couple of days. Not sure what to do about the lighting except to move extra rock into the DT.

Does your LFS rent out PAR meters?

If so a rental of one of these will set you back less than most single frags. If they have this then when you rent it ask them to demonstrate on their tanks and note what they keep the PAR at for their SPS areas, and in particular each coral type - they may have extra lights over the Arcos.

They shouldn't have any objections to showing you these values, especially as repeat customer. When setting your lights at home I’d suggest matching their PAR as closely as possible for each species you plan to add. Minimize stress on the corals from different light levels.

 

[kdx7214]

Does your LFS rent out PAR meters?

If so a rental of one of these will set you back less than most single frags. If they have this then when you rent it ask them to demonstrate on their tanks and note what they keep the PAR at for their SPS areas, and in particular each coral type - they may have extra lights over the Arcos.

They shouldn't have any objections to showing you these values, especially as repeat customer. When setting your lights at home I’d suggest matching their PAR as closely as possible for each species you plan to add. Minimize stress on the corals from different light levels.

The local shop is basically a plant store that has a few tanks of reef fish and frags. I've asked and they don't have one at all. The shop I usually go to, when I can, is a two hour drive away and while they might have one I seriously doubt they'd let me rent one from that distance.

From Noopsyche's web site it seems these lights only give 300 par. I'm reading 293 at the surface with that phone app (photone or something like that).

 

[Manpeckz]

PAR Readings for Noopsyche K7 Pro III on my 125

I took PAR readings in my standard 125 gallon display tank (72 inches long, 21 inches tall) and thought I'd share in case anyone else is looking at a similar setup. I used the Apogee SQ-420 meter. I have 3 lights on this tank: one in the center, and one centered on each overflow box. They are...

www.reef2reef.com

What intensity do you run the lights? Sorry if this is the different iteration of what others have asked you already. I feel this thread may give you a good glimpse of how your PAR is working with your particular setup.

 

[kdx7214]

PAR Readings for Noopsyche K7 Pro III on my 125

I took PAR readings in my standard 125 gallon display tank (72 inches long, 21 inches tall) and thought I'd share in case anyone else is looking at a similar setup. I used the Apogee SQ-420 meter. I have 3 lights on this tank: one in the center, and one centered on each overflow box. They are...

www.reef2reef.com

What intensity do you run the lights? Sorry if this is the different iteration of what others have asked you already. I feel this thread may give you a good glimpse of how your PAR is working with your particular setup.

Right now, due to the serious lack of documentation, I'm running the lights at the default settings with only the times changed. I run mine from 10am to 10pm so I actually get a chance to look at the tank more.

Frankly I'm not sure what adjustments to make. The app has 6 entries for each time, but no indication of what each entry does.

 

[kdx7214]

PAR Readings for Noopsyche K7 Pro III on my 125

I took PAR readings in my standard 125 gallon display tank (72 inches long, 21 inches tall) and thought I'd share in case anyone else is looking at a similar setup. I used the Apogee SQ-420 meter. I have 3 lights on this tank: one in the center, and one centered on each overflow box. They are...

www.reef2reef.com

What intensity do you run the lights? Sorry if this is the different iteration of what others have asked you already. I feel this thread may give you a good glimpse of how your PAR is working with your particular setup.

I just tried the manual setting and tried it at 100%. At the surface I'm still getting 293. According to Noopsyche's website they max out at 300.

 

[Lavey29]

I just tried the manual setting and tried it at 100%. At the surface I'm still getting 293. According to Noopsyche's website they max out at 300.

That ain't gonna cut it for SPS unless they are simple corals like stylo, birdsnest, etc... and they would have to be no more then 5 inches below the surface. I mentioned my lights are weak par also so you can see how I had to place stuff at the very top of the water surface for adequate light

I don't know if it was mentioned but if you have abundant coralline growing that's a good indicator that you can sustain SPS to.

 

[Manpeckz]

I just tried the manual setting and tried it at 100%. At the surface I'm still getting 293. According to Noopsyche's website they max out at 300.

Personally speaking, I would read that thread into the further pages and reference other reefers from here who have success. A lot of them are not running even close to 50% on their white light, many of them below 20%.

Did you switch to LED blue white in the Pro Photone mode?

 

[moorea reef]

Set gyre to flow at or near surface.

Po4 is a bit high

P04 LOOKS FINE, any lower your flirting with zero disaster

 

[Treefer32]

First, I have had phosphates as low as .00 and as high as .55 ppm. I've had nitrates anywhere from 0 to 70. My stats right now, trying to get phosphates up. My SPS are doing phenominal. I have a chalice that I have to break chunks off and throw away. I gave a 10" Piece of Chalice away to the LFS and I've still got a 10" piece that grew an inch in the last 2-3 weeks. I several species of acros that have grown into large 8" branching colonies. A massive Hydnophoria that keeps getting thicker and larger. Bonzai Acros that keep getting larger. Montipora continuously taking over realestate.

My alk I try to keep between 8 and 9 (seems to suit my LPS and SPS the most). Calcium is between 500- 525, magnesium is 1500 or so. Salinity between 1.025 - 1.026.

The only difference is I have a 340 gallon vs. 75.

That said, I went heavy into my lights. Well over $2500 in lights alone. I run 3 AI Hydra 52 LED lights in an Aquatic life fixture with 4 T5 High Out put (80 Watt bulbs each). I run the LEDs near at max for the blue bulbs.

But my tank top to bottom is 31" so I needed high power lighting to reach to the bottom. With all that lighting, my SPS are above halfway up the tank on several shelf rocks. It stays colorful, polyps are always open.

I run 4 4k gyres at 40-70% and they're about 3 " below the surface moving gentle currents of water over the SPS. I have two more MP40s pushing water from the back to the front to eliminate dead spots at the bottom. I also have one more powerhead rated at 6500 gph running near max pushing water around some of the SPS too. Plus 2400 Gph running out of my return nozzles which, blow gently over the SPS as well.


I think you're right in that your water parameters are near stable and in line with what they need to be. I've watched my acros grow from half inch frags to 8"+ monster colonies over the past 3-4 years (8 year old tank running).

That said, I still can't grow some SPS. I just added a Green slimer about the same level as the rest of my SPS on an empty rock and it's growing, but excruciatingly slowly. I'm hopeful over the next year or two it doubles / triples in size. It's not dying.

I think everyone is dead on with flow and lighting. I've never tested the par of my lights, but I assume my Acros have what they need at the levels they're at. My Acro / monti / Hydnophoria shelf.

 

[kenchilada]

Do you have a local reef club? Go make friends, check out their tanks, show them yours, do what they do. So much easier!

Asking around here is going to send you down the ICP test rabbit hole or you’ll get dumb advice like check for stray voltage or dose aminos.

I agree with @Treefer32 you are close but missing something basic.

 

[Thumbster]

Don’t know if it will help you or not but I’m running two Noopsyche K7 Pro III’s over my 40 breeder and I rented an Apogee par meter shortly after I put them in.
My lights are 6” above the water and the sandbed is 20” away from the lights.
Here’s the measurements that I got.
My white and red channels were at 15% and the rest were at 35% when I measured

 

[JoJosReef]

Agree with @Thumbster there's got to be something off with your PAR measurements. Those lights can hit 500+ on the surface and have good penetration to the sand bed. Blue channels run the hottest.

I've had surprising success with SPS, even acros, in a mixed reef where I previously had none in my smaller nanos. I attribute it to the following, through pure speculation:

1. Noopsyche lights giving great PAR and spectrum. I got a Parwise to check PAR and make sure the SPS island is getting a good 300-350 on the rocks at schedule peaks. I use a schedule that has a Saxby-like setting with intensity going up and down throughout the day.

2. Putting All For Reef on a doser going 8x per day. I think AFR works well for getting a tank started since it has everything. If I ever switch to other supplements (cheaper), I will still probably pump in some AFR every day.

3. Feeding the tank frequently (4-6x per day) with Reef Nutrition foods--Oyster Feast, Phyto Feast Pac Pods, ROE, and TDO pellets for the fish too. I like these foods. I don't see phosphate or nitrate spikes (nitrates are a bit too low, but I think everything is consuming nonstop).

4. Periodic dosing of Fiji Mud. Previously I used the Walt Smith stuff, but can't really find that sometimes, so I am using Aquaforest Life Source mud and using a very strong magnet to make sure all of the magnetic particles are kept at the bottom of the mixing container and out of the tank. I think this contributes to the bacterial diversity in the tank and makes for a cozier environment -- all speculation, but I'm sticking to it.

I don't know if any of these will help your tank, but if your SPS isn't doing well, trying something else might be worth a shot.

 

[Shevlin77]

Been reading along and agree you should try more flow and upgrade your lights. I have some sps that only do well at the top at around 400 par and some that are ok around 200-225. If you are only maxing at 300 at the surface you are probably at less than 200 in the bottom 2/3rds of the tank.

But flow is even more important that PAR for SPS. I doubled mine from like 4000 gallons per hour to 8000 in my 100g and the SPs finally started taking off.

And, like another said, you should test your ALk every 12 hours for a while and see what swings to have. If it’s over 1dkh that could be causing the problem.

 

[Kodock]

I would get a PAR meter and see what you’re getting. Those noopsyche v3 are very powerful and might have hot spots. In the past, I’ve always had blackbox leds and sps kept dying, it wasn’t until I dialed the lighting intensity back, that I started to see success.. slower growth, but no death. I’ve found tenius to be the most hardy in my experience, but each situation is different.

 

[EliMelly]

The local shop is basically a plant store that has a few tanks of reef fish and frags. I've asked and they don't have one at all. The shop I usually go to, when I can, is a two hour drive away and while they might have one I seriously doubt they'd let me rent one from that distance.

From Noopsyche's web site it seems these lights only give 300 par. I'm reading 293 at the surface with that phone app (photone or something like that).

Buy one on Amazon and then return it .

 

[Brucemull]

I posted the last results of testing I did. PO4 is normal per @Randy Holmes-Farley from other threads. An alkalinity of 8.07 is too low? I wonder if part of the problem is that there are a hundred different ideas what it's supposed to be. I've always gone by Randy's threads because he seems to be fully educated in the area. That doesn't mean his numbers are right though.

I have no idea how much light is too little/much. I don't have access to a PAR meter. The LFS doesn't have one and the nearest one that might is 2+ hours away by car. BRS offers them, but I don't have the cash for the "deposit" required to get one.

If I can come up with the funds somewhere I'll get an ICP test, if I can figure out which ones give reliable data and have decent procedures. From what I've read on here there are a lot of them that may or may not be reliable.

Hey
Icp can be your best friend when stuck with a million suggestions! Par meter is also your best friend especially when placing coral. With those known factor's you can look into specific issues found! Icp is cheaper than loosing 1 or more pricy corals. Tanks are like people no 2 are exactly alike. Look to the basics for answers it took me a few years an mistakes to get enough " smarts" to maintain my tanks! Forums are great places to learn from. Saved my butt many times. Happy reefing

 

[kdx7214]

Hey
Icp can be your best friend when stuck with a million suggestions! Par meter is also your best friend especially when placing coral. With those known factor's you can look into specific issues found! Icp is cheaper than loosing 1 or more pricy corals. Tanks are like people no 2 are exactly alike. Look to the basics for answers it took me a few years an mistakes to get enough " smarts" to maintain my tanks! Forums are great places to learn from. Saved my butt many times. Happy reefing

Thanks for the advice! I've got a couple of test kits on order to try some alkalinity testing a couple of times a day to watch for swings. I guess I'm going to have to break down and try to figure out the confusing options of icp tests now lol.

 

[kdx7214]

Buy one on Amazon and then return it .

I would if I could, but they're too expensive for the up front cost for me.

 

[EliMelly]

I would if I could, but they're too expensive for the up front cost for me.

Got it