What's dropping Alkalinity with the lights off?

PedroYoung

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I'm running a new tank with the lights off waiting on fish (tangs) before growing algae :rolleyes: . I've been monitoring Alk and increasing using ESV 2 part (the Alk portion). Alk increases for a day or so then drops back off. This is a 200G tank with live rock, running skimmer, with some silver sides in the filter socks to keep it cycled. I thought I understood Alk, but not clear where the Alk is going when there isn't anything consuming it (corals, coralline etc). Can someone set me straight?
Using Hanna Alk checker. Example, Alk was 7.3, I added 4 oz of Alk (slowly over several hrs). Next morning Alk was 8.2 (and pH had elevated from 8.3 to 8.5). 5 days later I'm at 7.5 Alk.

thanks in advance for any insight.

P
 
Alkalinity is lowered during cycling.

.
The tank if fully cycled though, no NH3 or Nitrites. I followed on to Randy's article and it seemed he was saying the effects of nitrogen cycle would be minimal, really only noticed over the course of a yr in a "balance tank". Not saying you're not correct, just that maybe I don't quite understand fully.
 
If you have silversides in the filtersock, you are producing a lot of ammonia. You do not need to keep feeding ammonia to the system every day. A simpler way would be to do a few drops of ammonium chloride once a week or so.
 
If you have silversides in the filtersock, you are producing a lot of ammonia. You do not need to keep feeding ammonia to the system every day. A simpler way would be to do a few drops of ammonium chloride once a week or so.
It would be if I had some ammonium chloride haha. That does make sense though. I had expected to be adding a large group of fish so was trying to beef up the bio-filter, but looks like I'll be waiting a little longer than I had planned (going to add a single angel in first so he can get established before throwing in a tang gang). Thanks for the info.
 
Make sure your MG is in the range, otherwise, it’s difficult to increase ALk.
 
Increasing nitrate depletes alkalinity, as does abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Lots of organisms also use calcium and alk, such as snails, certain worms, bivalves, etc.
 
It would be if I had some ammonium chloride haha. That does make sense though. I had expected to be adding a large group of fish so was trying to beef up the bio-filter, but looks like I'll be waiting a little longer than I had planned (going to add a single angel in first so he can get established before throwing in a tang gang). Thanks for the info.



When you get the fish, try to dose some dr tims, micro bacter start xlm, or fritz turbo 900. Adding prime will also help detoxify any ammonia that is not able to be processed immediately if it ends up you do not have enough bacteria.
 
Increasing nitrate depletes alkalinity, as does abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Lots of organisms also use calcium and alk, such as snails, certain worms, bivalves, etc.


One thing that confuses me is how does the acid redue alkalinity. I understand how it can lower pH, but how does the production of the acid interact with carbonate? Wouldn't it just create more bicarbonates? (ps sorry if this is obvious and I am missing something)
 
One thing that confuses me is how does the acid redue alkalinity. I understand how it can lower pH, but how does the production of the acid interact with carbonate? Wouldn't it just create more bicarbonates? (ps sorry if this is obvious and I am missing something)

If you are asking about nitrate, it is the production of it from ammonia that depletes alkalinity:


Alkalinity Decline in the Nitrogen Cycle

One of the best known chemical cycles in aquaria is the nitrogen cycle. In it, ammonia excreted by fish and other organisms is converted into nitrate. This conversion produces acid, H+ (or uses alkalinity depending on how one chooses to look at it), as shown in equation 1:

  1. (1) NH3 + 2O2 —> NO3- + H+ + H2O
For each ammonia molecule converted into nitrate, one hydrogen ion (H+) is produced. If nitrate is allowed to accumulate to 50 ppm, the addition of this acid will deplete 0.8 meq/L (2.3 dKH) of alkalinity.

However, the news is not all bad. When this nitrate proceeds further along the nitrogen cycle, depleted alkalinity is returned in exactly the amount lost. For example, if the nitrate is allowed to be converted into N2 in a sand bed, one of the products is bicarbonate, as shown in equation 2 (below) for the breakdown of glucose and nitrate under typical anoxic conditions as might happen in a deep sand bed:

  1. (2) 4NO3- + 5/6 C6H12O6 (glucose) + 4H2O —>2 N2 + 7H2O + 4HCO3- + CO2
In equation 2 we see that exactly one bicarbonate ion is produced for each nitrate ion consumed. Consequently, the alkalinity gain is 0.8 meq/L (2.3 dKH) for every 50 ppm of nitrate consumed.

Likewise, equation 3 (below) shows the uptake of nitrate and CO2into macroalgae to form typical organic molecules:

  1. (3) 122 CO2 + 122 H2O + 16 NO3- —> C106H260O106N16 + 138 O2 + 16 HCO3-
Again, one bicarbonate ion is produced for each nitrate ion consumed.

It turns out that as long as the nitrate concentration is stable, regardless of its actual value, there is no ongoing net depletion of alkalinity. Of course, alkalinity was depleted to reach that value, but once it stabilizes, there is no continuing alkalinity depletion because the export processes described above are exactly balancing the depletion from nitrification (the conversion of ammonia to nitrate).

There are, however, circumstances where the alkalinity is lost in the conversion of ammonia to nitrate, and is never returned. The most likely scenario to be important in reef aquaria is when nitrate is removed through water changes. In that case, each water change takes out some nitrate, and if the system produces nitrate to get back to some stable level, the alkalinity again becomes
If, for example, nitrate averages 50 ppm at each water change, then over the course of a year with 10 water changes of 20% each, the alkalinity will be depleted by 1.6 meq/L (4.5 dKH) over the course of that entire time period. This process is one of the primary reasons that fish-only aquaria that often export nitrate in water changes need occasional buffer additions to replace that depleted alkalinity.

While the magnitude of the depletion described in the paragraph above is fairly easy to understand, it also can be converted into units that clarify the imbalance. The impact of alkalinity depletion on the calcium and alkalinity demand balance depends, of course, on the amount of calcium and alkalinity added (and consumed) over the course of that same year.

For a typical reef aquarium (assuming a daily addition of saturated limewater equal to 2% of the tank's volume), the amount of alkalinity added during the course of a year is 297.8 meq/L. Likewise, the amount of calcium added is 5,957 ppm Ca++, given the ratio of 1 meq/L of alkalinity for every 20 ppm of calcium that has been discussed above. If that 1.6 meq/L of alkalinity is added to create a larger demand of 299.4 meq/L over the course of a year, the new ratio for the total demand becomes 19.90 ppm Ca++ per 1 meq/L of alkalinity.

Consequently, while this effect of nitrate production on alkalinity is enough to be noticed over the course of a year, it is substantially smaller than the other effects discussed in this article, and is unimportant for aquaria that maintain low nitrate levels
 

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