Whats happening? Suggestions please...

[coralcruze]

I don't know if I should worry or not... reason I say this is that everything is threiving and growing but PH is lower than I like it to be. here are my results...

9/24/2014
ph = 8.5
co2 ph = 6.55
temp = 79.6
salt = 35.2
orp = 461
cal = 425
alk = 2.4/6.7
mg = 1450
n03 = rs= 3.5
po4 = .15
*alk corrected.

10/3/14
cal = 600
kh = 2.7 dkh
*alk corrected.

PH is again low at 7.8- 8.1 I'm used to seeing it at 8.3-8.5 each time I have adjusted the alk the ph goes back up. I do have alot of SPS colonies and frags in a 105 gallon system which are begining to take off so I'm sure that has something to do with the alk drain.

so here are the questions:
1. will low alk affect the ph?
2. why isn't my cal. reactor able to keep up with demand? its rated for a much larger tank and I added a secondary chamber to be sure It does not drain the ph in the DT. do I need to implement a kalk system? I know kalk will raise PH which would help. Just surprised that my Koralin reactor can't keep up. This hasn't happened until now and my system is up for 5 years and some animals have been with me for 16 years in this system.
3. I did change salt to red sea salt which does have elevated levels (cal, mg, and alk) out of the bucket.
4. what other systems do I have to raise the ph? Currently I just correct levels using Randy's methods of baking soda and dow flake using his calculator.

any help would be appreciated.

 

[coralcruze]

anyone?

 

[CoralHut]

I don't know if I should worry or not... reason I say this is that everything is threiving and growing but PH is lower than I like it to be. here are my results...

9/24/2014
ph = 8.5
co2 ph = 6.55
temp = 79.6
salt = 35.2
orp = 461
cal = 425
alk = 2.4/6.7
mg = 1450
n03 = rs= 3.5
po4 = .15
*alk corrected.

10/3/14
cal = 600
kh = 2.7 dkh
*alk corrected.

PH is again low at 7.8- 8.1 I'm used to seeing it at 8.3-8.5 each time I have adjusted the alk the ph goes back up. I do have alot of SPS colonies and frags in a 105 gallon system which are begining to take off so I'm sure that has something to do with the alk drain.

so here are the questions:
1. will low alk affect the ph?
2. why isn't my cal. reactor able to keep up with demand? its rated for a much larger tank and I added a secondary chamber to be sure It does not drain the ph in the DT. do I need to implement a kalk system? I know kalk will raise PH which would help. Just surprised that my Koralin reactor can't keep up. This hasn't happened until now and my system is up for 5 years and some animals have been with me for 16 years in this system.
3. I did change salt to red sea salt which does have elevated levels (cal, mg, and alk) out of the bucket.
4. what other systems do I have to raise the ph? Currently I just correct levels using Randy's methods of baking soda and dow flake using his calculator.

any help would be appreciated.

1. Alkalinity effects pH but pH is greatly effected by CO2 levels. Some people build a CO2 scrubber if the problem is chronic otherwise if you open a window near the tank can help get rid of CO2. Others route their skimmer intake line to a window.

2. Your reactor may need to be adjusted. What do you run the pH at? Adjusting a calcium reactor can be accomplished in several ways: lower pH, increase or decrease flow rate (decrease for concentrated levels increase for less concentrated), or increase bubble count. Also if your media is old it may be exhausted. Replace the media.

3. Salt should only further help to maintain levels if you're using a premium mix over a basic mix.

4. The aforementioned in reply to # 1 can help. Honestly your pH looks good and if it is stable I would not mess with it other than adding fresh air or a CO2 scrubber. Your issue is your demand for Alkalinity is greater than your output. Increase output as your alkalinity should never be lower than 7.5-8.

 

[CoralHut]

Sorry just saw you run your calcium reactor at 6.55. I would decrease flow rate and see if that helps. If that alone doesn't help increase bubble rate. You can also output your CO2 into a vessel before it goes into the tank to help diffuse excess co2 or inject it directly into skimmer intake. CO2 from your calcium reactor can cause depressed pH.

 

[coralcruze]

thanks for your responce and ideas... I just replaced medea when I purchased my secondary calcium reactor chamber. I have a window and a fan to drive outdoor fresh air in so C02 in the room is not the issue. Alk demand is definately up but I am concerned because the reactor cant keep up with this demand. I use an apex reef computer to monitor and control this. I'm not trying to control the ph more than I am trying to get alk to stay put. I cant for some reason every two weeks I'm having to manually add alk to the system. Calcium has been added also but generally alk is being depleated fast. I do use amino acids which I have been told can cause this (is this true?). I drip at a rate of a drop to 2 per second of effluent out of the calcium reactor. I will try slowing it evenmore. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you have high confidence in that alk reading? Maybe try checking some new salt mix with the same kit.

Almost never does it get that low (2.7 dKH) because corals stop calcifying as the alk drops below about 5-6 dKH.

Low alkalinity will lead to low pH.

So I'd work on the alkalinity only at this point.Double check the reading, then adjust the reactor if needed, or go a a two part plus the reactor (or limewater plus the reactor).

 

[coralcruze]

Do you have high confidence in that alk reading? Maybe try checking some new salt mix with the same kit.

Almost never does it get that low (2.7 dKH) because corals stop calcifying as the alk drops below about 5-6 dKH.

Low alkalinity will lead to low pH.

So I'd work on the alkalinity only at this point.Double check the reading, then adjust the reactor if needed, or go a a two part plus the reactor (or limewater plus the reactor).

darn it Randy always making me think twice. MNnnn no I don't have high confidence in my alk reading. I guess I'm fairlt confident that its dropping though. at what exact level it is at? who knows.

having said that... I am now trying to adjust my cal. reactor to see if I can keep up with alk demand and have ph remain over 8.0 day or night. Otherwise yes I'm thinking kalk reactor and be done with it.

 

[coralcruze]

Randy... a follow up question for you or anyone else that can chime in.

I evaporate about 5 gallons of water from my system. I'm considering this unit AVAST Marine Works - K2 Kalk Stirrer - Product Details which requires you to hook up the ro/di directly to it. is there a chance that 5 gallons a day is too much kalk water for my system. Meaning the kalk water would raise my PH more than my system could handle? the reason I aks is my system is only a 105 gallons MD with a 30 gal sump. Its a unique system and evaporates more water than most other systems its size. Please advise! Thanks in advance...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

5 gallons per day is a pretty substantial amount. If you were dosing from a settled reservoir, you could just add less than saturation to the fresh water.

With many limewater reactors, you can put the stirrer on a timer, so it is not stirring all of the time, making the water not be fully saturated. Assuming it has the power to restart OK after the mud has settled, this should work fine to reduce the potency quite a bit.

That said, I've not used that reactor myself.

 

[coralcruze]

5 gallons per day is a pretty substantial amount. If you were dosing from a settled reservoir, you could just add less than saturation to the fresh water.

With many limewater reactors, you can put the stirrer on a timer, so it is not stirring all of the time, making the water not be fully saturated. Assuming it has the power to restart OK after the mud has settled, this should work fine to reduce the potency quite a bit.

That said, I've not used that reactor myself.

Thanks Randy... I went ahead and purchased the avast marine kalk reactor. which just has a motor that spins slowly to mix the slurry at the bottom. I have heard that you can only add 2 teaspoons/gallon for fully saturated mix. I too have never had any expierience using a kalk reactor. my question is would i need to continuously add kalk to the system weekly? bi weekly monthly? The chamber is 6" diameter and is filler to 15" high so:

volume of a tube = [SIZE=+1]volume =

r² h = 3.14(9)(15)= 423.9 Cubic inches

using an online calculator... cubic inches to gallons is:
423.9 cubic inches = 1.835 gallons

so the question I have is since I evaporate 5 gallons per day how much kalk would you recommend I mix into this reactor to get a less than saturated mix.

The other way I was thinking on doing this is mix to fully saturated solution and implement a solenoid valve to open only a fraction of the time to the kalk while filling the rest of the fresh rodi water need for the system. currently I have the rodi coming on three times for a half hour each time every 24 hour period. My rodi is a 100GPD unit so 100/24=4.16gal/hr so thats about 2.18 gal every half hour... since I only use 5 gallons I rely on failsafes(float switches) and apex reef computer in my system to turn off the waterfilter based on sump water level.

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