What's the difference and what do I really need

[Bob Escher]

So Part One: I hear about dosing I understand it but:
I read about ( for example) BRS 2 part, aqua forest has three parts. Then she there's Seachem fusion 1&2 and Seachem reef complete, Brightwell has theirs, Red Sea has different parts. And on and on
What is needed?
My tank
45 gal JBJ AIO with a 20gal trigger systems crystal cube
Coralvue icecap PK 50 skimmer
Innovative marine minimal reactor ( mid sized one) with bio pellets
Zetlight z6500a Led light running at 50% power
Vortechs MP 10's (2)
Waveline 2500 return pump rated at 660gph may be getting 440 GPH
65 lbs of live sand and 40 lbs of rock ( all live by now)
Seachem matrix , purigen, poly filter for filtration
Water is changed 10% weekly

Water parameters
Test parameters 07/19/2016

Temp: 77.9
Alkalinity:11. /3.9
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrate: 02
Nitrite: 0
Calcium 350
Mag: 1100
Phosphates: 0
Ph: 7.8

I have three trumpet corals. A BT anemone ( which seems to be doing great ( feed small piece of shrimp every three days)
Zoa, a acan, Cyphas,
pink birdsnest, Montipora , a, Zoas
The birds nest have bleached out.
I have been moving the flags around seeing how they would do ( have had them for 2 1/2 months

I have been adding Seachem fusion 1&2,
Seachem complete, Kent trace elements, aquavitto vibrance. Phytoplankton and snow

Fish get fed once a day either with brine shrimp ( 2 cubes) or new life spectrum ( three or four pinches) also algae pellets and seaweed

Fish are
5 chromis
3 pajama cardinalfish
2 oscellaris clowns
1 diamond watchmen goby
Pseudo chromis
Royal gramma
Three or four crabs
Banded coral shrimp

The reason why I'm listing all this is that my corals aren't growing
Ive transferred a few frags to rocks but still nothing, they're either dying off, hair algae has grown on some ( have dosed Red Sea NO3/PO4x once a week)
But no growth
Zetlight has been on the tank a month and have slowly ramped up to 50% corals are at approx 10 to 12 inches below light water flow is medium to stron ( Vortechs run at about 30 to 40 % unless in nutrient mode and then up to 60%


I'm just getting frustrated I love the tank the fish and everything but corals aren't growing or dying ( no help from the anemone that moves weekly)
and I want to add more but I don't even have much coralline.

Thank you so much for reading and any critiquing or suggestions welcome and explanation of what to dose to achieve proper parameter

 

[Joeganja]

BRS 2 part include magnesium also. Magnesium basically is below alkalinity and calcium and what it does is it keeps them stable. If your magnesium is low then it's going to be hard to keep alkalinity and calcium in check. But with the BRS 2 part which I use everyday is absolutely amazing. For the price you can't go wrong and it should last you about a year maybe more. I'm not even halfway with mine and it's been 6 months. I started in February. It's a great product. I don't know what seachem complete is but if your dosing trace elements I'd be careful. I test iodine, potassium, and iron and my levels are fine and I don't even dose any trace elements because if iodine gets too high you lose your stuff. Chances depending on the salt you use your trace elements are already in there and the corals wk t eat them up and deportees them as fast as alkalinity and calcium and magnesium.
My tank is a 90 gallon and I only dose BRS 2 part and seachem aquavittro fuel.

 

[chefjpaul]

What are testing with?

The numbers seem off to me, with that much food in the system and this dosing as well.

Kh is high for the no3.
Need to get no3 and po4 up if these are the correct numbers.
Mg is tad low.

Personally I think you maybe going to fast, slow down a bit with all the dosing and additions and let the tank equalize to its own equilibrium.

Also slow down on moving around corals with a new light, let them adapt.

Post a pic....

 

[Bob Escher]

What are testing with?

The numbers seem off to me, with that much food in the system and this dosing as well.

Kh is high for the no3.
Need to get no3 and po4 up if these are the correct numbers.
Mg is tad low.

Personally I think you maybe going to fast, slow down a bit with all the dosing and additions and let the tank equalize to its own equilibrium.

Also slow down on moving around corals with a new light, let them adapt.

Post a pic....

I use Red Sea test kits for mag, ca, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, KH, phosphate I use API.
I have a video put not a current picture

 

[Fenzinna]

Honesly, I think your first issue is that Mag. You need to raise it to approx 1350 over the course of a week. That's the first thing I would handle.

The second, is that your alk is too high for my preference. While getting the mag up, I would stop dosing whatever you're dosing and let your Alk drift while monitoring it. This way, you can see your daily consumption. I keep my tank just under 8dkh. It does best there.

Third, what salt are you using to do water changes with? If your salt ALK doesn't match the ALK in the tank, you're going to be causing 10% swings based on whatever alk your salt mixes too. This can be huge. If your tank is at 11dkh and you do a 4 gallon water change with 8dkh fresh mix. That's a drop of .7dkh weekly and IMO could be to blame for your problems.

With all your filtration methods, I would either feed more or take some of your bio filter offline. Pellets, matrix, skimmer, 10% WC, purigen, polyfilter. It's just too much, IMO. On my 130, I run a skimmer and siporax in my sump. I'm feeding my tank about 6-8 cube equivelent of frozen mysis daily. This keeps my nitrates around 2ppm. You really don't need all that and could be starving the tank. You need to simplify it some.

Lastly, how long have you had the frags that are having issues? If the problems come right after introducing them to the tank, your acclimation methods could be to blame.

 

[Bob Escher]

I have been using instant ocean for the last six months but going to Red Sea coral salt. The reason why we have so many filtration is originally this was a AIO. Tank. Then we had problems with not keeping snails and crabs. Water parameters were fine ( this last weekly test was a big change had been steady for about 8 weeks of testing) but it was recommended to use purigen along with by poly filter. And your right I worry about anything higher than zero a and I shouldn't worry about nitrates being a tad high. The frags have been in the tanks since April

 

[SeaDweller]

Honesly, I think your first issue is that Mag. You need to raise it to approx 1350 over the course of a week. That's the first thing I would handle.

The second, is that your alk is too high for my preference. While getting the mag up, I would stop dosing whatever you're dosing and let your Alk drift while monitoring it. This way, you can see your daily consumption. I keep my tank just under 8dkh. It does best there.

Third, what salt are you using to do water changes with? If your salt ALK doesn't match the ALK in the tank, you're going to be causing 10% swings based on whatever alk your salt mixes too. This can be huge. If your tank is at 11dkh and you do a 4 gallon water change with 8dkh fresh mix. That's a drop of .7dkh weekly and IMO could be to blame for your problems.

With all your filtration methods, I would either feed more or take some of your bio filter offline. Pellets, matrix, skimmer, 10% WC, purigen, polyfilter. It's just too much, IMO. On my 130, I run a skimmer and siporax in my sump. I'm feeding my tank about 6-8 cube equivelent of frozen mysis daily. This keeps my nitrates around 2ppm. You really don't need all that and could be starving the tank. You need to simplify it some.

Lastly, how long have you had the frags that are having issues? If the problems come right after introducing them to the tank, your acclimation methods could be to blame.

Excellent advice here. Listen up!!!

 

[Bob Escher]

I agree with my water parameters. Those parameters are from last week normally ( before I added the sump) parameters are more in line. He also has a much bigger sump but I will take his water parameter and use them
But at the same time he must have a Fish only tank because he says all he has is a skimmer and spirox media. No live sand or rock? No cheato no nothing than those two items? Both you guys seem to have less than I have you both have only fish tanks? No coral no live rock or sand

 

[reeferfoxx]

His parameters were off but this was his original question

"I read about ( for example) BRS 2 part, aqua forest has three parts. Then she there's Seachem fusion 1&2 and Seachem reef complete, Brightwell has theirs, Red Sea has different parts. And on and on
What is needed?"

Just pick whatever is more convenient?

Use this calculator

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Compare the different products.

Use the BRS calculator

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator

Punch in your numbers, compare what would be easier for you or cheapest or whatever suits you. For that size tank I recommend 2 part dosing vs. kalk for example.

 

[chefjpaul]

His parameters were off but this was his original question

"I read about ( for example) BRS 2 part, aqua forest has three parts. Then she there's Seachem fusion 1&2 and Seachem reef complete, Brightwell has theirs, Red Sea has different parts. And on and on
What is needed?"

Just pick whatever is more convenient?

Use this calculator

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Compare the different products.

Use the BRS calculator

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator

Punch in your numbers, compare what would be easier for you or cheapest or whatever suits you. For that size tank I recommend 2 part dosing vs. kalk for example.

I stated to slow down on all the dosing, I doubt this little demand requires it at this time, To get parameters in order and then see if its even needed as water changes will probably suffice.

Corals are dying due to water parameters all go hand in hand, it's not always an easy one answer fits one question as there were multiple questions.


Why would you say two part is better regarding tank size? I assume it comes to demand, as long as you adjust for evaporation seasonal changes.

I've had and currently have 30 - 60 gallon tanks and only use kalk with a medium demand.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I stated to slow down on all the dosing, I doubt this little demand requires it at this time, To get parameters in order and then see if its even needed as water changes will probably suffice.

Corals are dying due to water parameters all go hand in hand, it's not always an easy one answer fits one question as there were multiple questions.


Why would you say two part is better regarding tank size? I assume it comes to demand, as long as you adjust for evaporation seasonal changes.

I've had and currently have 30 - 60 gallon tanks and only use kalk with a medium demand.

The only way he would get parameters back to where he needs them would be a 100% change which just isn't safe. So if he did 25% WC that's not going to get his water parameters correct. With a 2 part he can dose calcium by itself which would get him back to normal. Seachem fusion part 1 and 2 might be a little more helpful since it's his first dosing regimen. The calcium adds some magnesium also which would correct his mag without buying separate magnesium.

Kalk usually goes in the ATO and the evaporation on nano tanks vary greatly compared to a larger system. Something about the amount of ATO + kalk that can cause greater precip.

 

[Salty1962]

BRS is Alk and Ca. Aqua Forest is Alk, Ca and Mg.

 

[chefjpaul]

The only way he would get parameters back to where he needs them would be a 100% change which just isn't safe. So if he did 25% WC that's not going to get his water parameters correct. With a 2 part he can dose calcium by itself which would get him back to normal. Seachem fusion part 1 and 2 might be a little more helpful since it's his first dosing regimen. The calcium adds some magnesium also which would correct his mag without buying separate magnesium.

Kalk usually goes in the ATO and the evaporation on nano tanks vary greatly compared to a larger system. Something about the amount of ATO + kalk that can cause greater precip.

I agree 100% to just get them back in place once.

 

[36boo]

What happens when the wc water don't have the same alkalinity levels how you get them there

 

[reeferfoxx]

@Bob Escher

I calculated your 45g + trigger so I guessed 55 gallons?

The calculator for calcium says
Dose the Seachem Fusion 1 187ml or 37.4 cap fulls
Dose 1/3 to 1/2 the total 187ml and the next day test. Check your levels and then dose another portion. Since your calcium is so low, I wouldn't dose more than 62ml in a 24 hour period. So dose 31ml slowly before lights on. Then 31ml slowly after lights off.

Don't dose anything else. Test your alk. Let your alk drop to 8-9dkh over the next few days and maintain that number. Since your no3 and po4 are low, you don't want high alkalinity.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I forgot to add, that dosing I suggested will get your calcium from 350 - 440ppm. But keep in mind, once you get your parameters back to normal and corals start bouncing back, your dosing will change. Alk testing needs to happen everyday and twice a day if need be. Calcium for now can be tested everyday or every other day. Just gotta get your numbers back to normal.

So use that calculator religiously

 

[Triggreef]

Probably just the salt your using keeping your alk so high. The advice you received already is fantastic from reeferfoxx especially. I'd suggest a slightly easier way though only because you don't seem to have enough live stock to have to worry about dosing a 2 part or 3 part.

I'd suggest going to a lower alk brand of salt like red sea or aqua Forest and do a few 50 percent water changes within a couple weeks time. Maybe even every 3rd day. 3 or 4 like that will get you back on track. Then see how often and what size water change you need to keep it all in line. I'd try making in your ato prior to getting into dosing multiple parts.

In the future don't let your Ca drop below 370 as corals cannot build skeleton under that number. With either of the salt brands above, it should be easy to maintain alk at about 8dkh Ca 400+ and mg in the high 1200s with only routine 20 percent water changes.

 

[chefjpaul]

What happens when the wc water don't have the same alkalinity levels how you get them there

I keep my tank same as my salts levels. I prefer to Dose the tank, not the mixing water.

 

[Bob Escher]

@Bob Escher

I calculated your 45g + trigger so I guessed 55 gallons?

The calculator for calcium says
Dose the Seachem Fusion 1 187ml or 37.4 cap fulls
Dose 1/3 to 1/2 the total 187ml and the next day test. Check your levels and then dose another portion. Since your calcium is so low, I wouldn't dose more than 62ml in a 24 hour period. So dose 31ml slowly before lights on. Then 31ml slowly after lights off.

Don't dose anything else. Test your alk. Let your alk drop to 8-9dkh over the next few days and maintain that number. Since your no3 and po4 are low, you don't want high alkalinity.

Thank you Reeferfox I'm going to save this page and reference it. Those figures were after I added my sump. Before doing so the water parameters were right on target with everything. Nitrates were even so long that it wasn't providing anything but again thank you

 

[Bob Escher]

Probably just the salt your using keeping your alk so high. The advice you received already is fantastic from reeferfoxx especially. I'd suggest a slightly easier way though only because you don't seem to have enough live stock to have to worry about dosing a 2 part or 3 part.

I'd suggest going to a lower alk brand of salt like red sea or aqua Forest and do a few 50 percent water changes within a couple weeks time. Maybe even every 3rd day. 3 or 4 like that will get you back on track. Then see how often and what size water change you need to keep it all in line. I'd try making in your ato prior to getting into dosing multiple parts.

In the future don't let your Ca drop below 370 as corals cannot build skeleton under that number. With either of the salt brands above, it should be easy to maintain alk at about 8dkh Ca 400+ and mg in the high 1200s with only routine 20 percent water changes.

Thank you trigger reef. I was using instant ocean but knowing my figures were off and to careful on dosing I switched to Red Sea coral and will use that from now on