What's wrong with my gyre?

Wrasse-cal · Aug 17, 2018

I'm at wits end trying to figure out what is wrong with this gyre. I've sent to back to CoralVue for support. CoralVue says the motorblock is fine. CoralVue said the hard bushings were likely rubbing, but clearly, from the gif below, that's not the case. I also checked to make sure the gyre interface module was not causing problems--it's not. I was able to verify this by running my working gyre with the same interface module.

The green light on the GIM will be lit solid, then very quickly blink off the back on every 2.1 seconds. The gyre blades will jerk forward for a second, stop then jerk forward for a second. The red light on the GIM is off.

Does anyone have any idea what is going on?

Crabs McJones · Aug 17, 2018

No picture or gif is showing

Brew12 · Aug 17, 2018

Wrasse-cal said:
I'm at wits end trying to figure out what is wrong with this gyre. I've sent to back to CoralVue for support. CoralVue says the motorblock is fine. CoralVue said the hard bushings were likely rubbing, but clearly, from the gif below, that's not the case. I also checked to make sure the gyre interface module was not causing problems--it's not. I was able to verify this by running my working gyre with the same interface module.

Does anyone have any idea what is going on?

Interesting.. I see it listed when I quoted you, but I can't actually see it in the post.

Can you also describe the problem?

Brew12 · Aug 17, 2018

Wrasse-cal · Aug 17, 2018

Brew12 said:
Interesting.. I see it listed when I quoted you, but I can't actually see it in the post.

Can you also describe the problem?

That's so strange!

The green light on the GIM will be lit solid, then very quickly blink off the back on every 2.1 seconds. The gyre blades will jerk forward for a second, stop then jerk forward for a second. The red light on the GIM is off.

Wrasse-cal · Aug 17, 2018

Gifs are showing now.

Crabs McJones · Aug 17, 2018

Do the blades look like they're drooping because the housing isn't on them? Looks like they're trying to spin, and then get some sort of resistance and then stop.

Wrasse-cal · Aug 17, 2018

Crabs Mcjones said:
Do the blades look like they're drooping because the housing isn't on them? Looks like they're trying to spin, and then get some sort of resistance and then stop.

I don't think so. The same exact thing happens when the housings are installed. I made sure of course that the correct housings were on the correct sides. I took that video to prove to CoralVue that it was not the case that the problem was caused by the hard bushings rubbing.

DSC reef · Aug 17, 2018

It looks like the bushing and or block is warped to me.

erk · Aug 17, 2018

The motor in the gyre is a 3 phase brushless DC motor. The controller is a standard back emf BLDC controller design. You stated the controller works fine with another gyre, which indicates that it is sensing the back emf correctly and controlling each phase in the correct order.

How did CoralVue verify the motor block is fine?
Have you run without blades installed?
Have you tried a different Gyre controller?

Wrasse-cal · Aug 17, 2018

erk said:
The motor in the gyre is a 3 phase brushless DC motor. The controller is a standard back emf BLDC controller design. You stated the controller works fine with another gyre, which indicates that it is sensing the back emf correctly and controlling each phase in the correct order.

How did CoralVue verify the motor block is fine?
Have you run without blades installed?
Have you tried a different Gyre controller?

How did CoralVue verify the motor block is fine?
I sent it to them. They sent it back and said it was fine.

Have you run without blades installed?
Yes. Same behavior.

Have you tried a different Gyre controller?
Yes. Same behavior. I should be clear that I run the two gyres via two gyre control modules so I can use my apex. If I use the other GIM, there is no change.

roberthu526 · Aug 17, 2018

Based on you description it is almost certain that something is not right with the motor. But CoralVue said it was fine. So the only thing left is installation error.

Wrasse-cal · Aug 17, 2018

roberthu526 said:
Based on you description it is almost certain that something is not right with the motor. But CoralVue said it was fine. So the only thing left is installation error.

That very well may be, but I've watched the install/cleaning video CoralVue posted and followed those instructions. I can't see how I made a mistake.

erk · Aug 17, 2018

Wrasse-cal said:
How did CoralVue verify the motor block is fine?
I sent it to them. They sent it back and said it was fine.

Have you run without blades installed?
Yes. Same behavior.

Have you tried a different Gyre controller?
Yes. Same behavior. I should be clear that I run the two gyres via two gyre control modules so I can use my apex. If I use the other GIM, there is no change.

It would be interesting to see what CoralVue did to verify that the motor works. I don't see how a warped bushing would cause the motor to reverse direction the way it does. The warped bushing should bind, causing a stall condition and trip the over current fail safe. That is what causes the red light to come on. Since none of this happens, the motor is operating correctly as far as the controller is concerned.

I want to say that a phase may be wired in reverse. Not sure the best way to test this since the motor casing is sealed and water proof.

Edit:
Can you rotate the prop and start it up at different positions? If you see that only one position consistently rotates the opposite of everywhere else, that would indicate an incorrectly wound phase.

IslandLifeReef · Aug 17, 2018

I agree with @DSC reef, it looks like the blades were put in crooked and warped. Does the motor block run without the blades.

CODE3EMT · Aug 17, 2018

Do you have a Flipper Max near by? Mine did something kinda funky like that and I realized the Flipper Max was next to it. I can't say 100% that was the culprit but it has not done it to me since.......knock on wood.

Have you cleaned it? Not just the blades, but inside the motor..... the shaft can be pulled out.

Brew12 · Aug 17, 2018

I don't know enough about the gyre controller to say for sure but....

Some motors have a position feedback device built into the motor to give rotor speed feedback to the controller. Looks like the gyre may have something like that and it isn't working correctly.

Have you tried running it in a bucket?

User1 · Aug 17, 2018

I would call them back and have a dialog to see what they did. If you sent it to them with all the parts and controller and it is doing what the gif shows I can't see how they would send it back. It is clearly not working.

erk · Aug 17, 2018

Brew12 said:
I don't know enough about the gyre controller to say for sure but....

Some motors have a position feedback device built into the motor to give rotor speed feedback to the controller. Looks like the gyre may have something like that and it isn't working correctly.

Have you tried running it in a bucket?

It's a back emf BLDC motor. The feedback is just from the "non-powered" phase. This is how you don't have to use hall effect sensors and just have the three wires, one for each phase.

Brew12 · Aug 18, 2018

erk said:
It's a back emf BLDC motor. The feedback is just from the "non-powered" phase. This is how you don't have to use hall effect sensors and just have the three wires, one for each phase.

Good to know.

In my opinion, using CEMF for control purposes isn't ideal. It's fine for generating warnings like when a pump needs to be cleaned. That is why more companies are switching to the hall effect crystal even though it has a higher cost.