When Buying Fish from LFS

[southeastfishaddict]

Also The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off. No need at all for 90 days

thank you for your reply vetteguy, so you think that more than likely I will lose all of my fish? I have about twenty of them now and it looks like they are all doing a lot better now. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to be able to take them out since they are extremely fast and there is a lot of Rockwell. This is my tank setup here. I purchased some ick polyp lab, but not sure how effective it will be at this stage.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Good evening all, I’m new to this salt water fish hobby. I had a fish tank installed right before Christmas and I went fish crazy like your typical newbie. During the process I had many fish die including a few tangs and a powder blue today. My mind has been clobbering me on what went wrong. When I spoke with one of my fish suppliers from my LFS and who installed my Red Sea reef tank he said it’s not very practical to install a quarantine tank and that it requires a lot of effort to do.. so he kind of steered me away from doing that. The other LFS owner told me the same thing, but he said that if I want to maintain the fish, that I should reduce the salt because there is more of a chance of getting ich on the fish. Everything was going well and I felt like if I was on cruise control, but then a few fish started dying and then, I noticed ich on some of the fish. As you can imagine, i became stressed and frustrated since I’ve been investing a lot of time, money and effort into this new hobby of mind. Also, accompanied with some fights with the wife. So a few things are going through my head right now.. should I get divorce or should I keep going with this? jk. What caused these deaths .. is it that the fish store had very low salt and it was to drastic of a change for the fish that I bought and it made them get ich? Also, keep in mind that I live in Chicago so it gets extremely cold, so I’m sure there was a fluctuation in the temperature. The LFS is about half an hour from my home, but I drive straight home and kept them in a styrofoam container..

Thank you all for your replies! From what I can see on your responses it states that I should go fishless for about two months after removing the fish, but keep in mind that it will be extremely difficult to do that due to the tank size and the rockwork. I think the best approach would be to keep the existing fish in the tank and hold tight for a while to see what happens. It will be a valuable lesson. If I do decide to buy more fish in the future, I’m aware that they will get ich due to it being in the tank. Do you have any other suggestions on what I can do in the time being? I plan on keeping the corals, so running copper wouldn’t be a good idea. Anything else that I can do due to my situation..

Thank you I advance for your knowledge & all of your efforts!!

 

[Nemo&Friends]

How big is your tank?
I never quarantine either, but I went extremely slow, and I do not overcrowd the fish. That will stress them and they will get sick.
First make a list of the fish you wish to have. Then check carefully if they will fit in your aquarium when adult. LFS sells young small fish, they can grow quite fast and become too big or too aggressive for your tank.
If these fish are the right recommended size for your aquarium, then check if they will get along together. Avoid putting very shy fish with very aggressive ones. Do not put too many aggressive ones together. Adjust your list so the fish will meet these requirements.
Once you tank is cycled, add 2 fish in it. Start by the less aggressive ones. Give them a few weeks to settle. Then you add another couple of fish, and wait. Get to know them well, before adding more. The last one added should be the most aggressive ones. Remember, there is a limit to the number of fish your aquarium can hold. Once it is full you will not be able to add more.... and if then you see a fish you really want you will not be able to get it... So go slowly and keep some free space so you can get the special one later.
Also make sure that your fish, I mean each of your fish have a private hiding place in your tank. They need to know they can hide, if they feel threatened. That will go a long way to lower their stress and preventing sickness.
As I said, I never quarantine, I do not like to medicate for no reason. However, you could compromise and observe them first, in a smaller aquarium for 2 or 3 weeks before adding them to your tank. That way if you are sold a sick fish, you avoid getting other fish sick, or you can treat it without having to treat all the fish.
Good luck.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Good evening all, I’m new to this salt water fish hobby. I had a fish tank installed right before Christmas and I went fish crazy like your typical newbie. During the process I had many fish die including a few tangs and a powder blue today. My mind has been clobbering me on what went wrong. When I spoke with one of my fish suppliers from my LFS and who installed my Red Sea reef tank he said it’s not very practical to install a quarantine tank and that it requires a lot of effort to do.. so he kind of steered me away from doing that. The other LFS owner told me the same thing, but he said that if I want to maintain the fish, that I should reduce the salt because there is more of a chance of getting ich on the fish. Everything was going well and I felt like if I was on cruise control, but then a few fish started dying and then, I noticed ich on some of the fish. As you can imagine, i became stressed and frustrated since I’ve been investing a lot of time, money and effort into this new hobby of mine. Also, accompanied with some fights with the wife. So a few things are going through my head right now.. should I get divorced or should I keep going with this? What caused these deaths .. is it that the fish store had very low salt and it was to drastic of a change for the fish that I bought and it made them get ich? Also, keep in mind that I live in Chicago so it gets extremely cold, so I’m sure there was a fluctuation in the temperature. The LFS is about half an hour from my home, but I drive straight home and kept them in a styrofoam container..

How big is your tank?
I never quarantine either, but I went extremely slow, and I do not overcrowd the fish. That will stress them and they will get sick.
First make a list of the fish you wish to have. Then check carefully if they will fit in your aquarium when adult. LFS sells young small fish, they can grow quite fast and become too big or too aggressive for your tank.
If these fish are the right recommended size for your aquarium, then check if they will get along together. Avoid putting very shy fish with very aggressive ones. Do not put too many aggressive ones together. Adjust your list so the fish will meet these requirements.
Once you tank is cycled, add 2 fish in it. Start by the less aggressive ones. Give them a few weeks to settle. Then you add another couple of fish, and wait. Get to know them well, before adding more. The last one added should be the most aggressive ones. Remember, there is a limit to the number of fish your aquarium can hold. Once it is full you will not be able to add more.... and if then you see a fish you really want you will not be able to get it... So go slowly and keep some free space so you can get the special one later.
Also make sure that your fish, I mean each of your fish have a private hiding place in your tank. They need to know they can hide, if they feel threatened. That will go a long way to lower their stress and preventing sickness.
As I said, I never quarantine, I do not like to medicate for no reason. However, you could compromise and observe them first, in a smaller aquarium for 2 or 3 weeks before adding them to your tank. That way if you are sold a sick fish, you avoid getting other fish sick, or you can treat it without having to treat all the fish.
Good luck.

Thank you Nemo&Friends, for your feedback. How many fish do you think could be added to a 135 gallon tank with lots of rock? I know that there are many factors involved. Most of the fish I bought were on the smaller side like 3 to 4 inches.. but i did get like five tangs but were added together. It did seem to work because there wasn’t much aggression going on. The problem is that I did everything within a month’s time. I still have Mike twenty fish in there, but some of them have ich. I don’t know what to expect next .. if they are going to make it through this or not..

 

[vetteguy53081]

thank you for your reply vetteguy, so you think that more than likely I will lose all of my fish? I have about twenty of them now and it looks like they are all doing a lot better now. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to be able to take them out since they are extremely fast and there is a lot of Rockwell. This is my tank setup here. I purchased some ick polyp lab, but not sure how effective it will be at this stage.

Polyp Lab Medic is peroxide salts and rarely works. Coppersafe or General cure are your best bets. General cure as is or coppersafe at 2.2 and monitor with a Reliable kit such as Hanna brand . With the number of fish, add aeration and monitor water quality mainly ammonia also with a reliable test kit

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Thank you Vetteguy, for the recommendations .. I will definitely check those products out and get one of them ordered as soon as possible . Much appreciated

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Thank you Vetteguy, for the recommendations .. I will definitely check those products out and get one of them ordered as soon as possible . Much appreciated

Polyp Lab Medic is peroxide salts and rarely works. Coppersafe or General cure are your best bets. General cure as is or coppersafe at 2.2 and monitor with a Reliable kit such as Hanna brand . With the number of fish, add aeration and monitor water quality mainly ammonia also with a reliable test kit

Vetteguy, do you think it would be safe to use Polyp Lab Medic with General cure ? Because the polyp lab medicine is coming in tomorrow & wanted to get some medicine in the tank as soon as possible .. or should I hold off

 

[Nemo&Friends]

What is the foot print of your tank, it is as important as the number of gallons. If you have a 6' tank, your 5 tangs might be ok, but if it is a 4' one, I would not do it.
Your fish were still small and young that is why you did not see any aggression yet. Tang are more prone to get ick than other fish.
I think that 20 fish in your tank, especially if you have other fish that will become as big as your tangs you have more than enough.
I have 125G and had 14 fish for a long time and I had only 2 fish that would be comparable in size to your tangs. I lost my 12+ years clown a while back and will replace them and may be will buy an extra fish along with them too, I will not go over 16 fish. In the mean time I added snails and shrimps. These can be fun too.
If you only had fish the size of firefish, you could get 40 easily.
My 3 years old hippo tang got ick around 2 month ago and recovered on its own. I did no treat him in anyway, just kept him fed. No other fish got sick. But my tank is over 12 years old.
If your LFS tried to slow down your purchase, I would go back to see them. To me it means they care more about the fish than about making a quick buck.

 

[littlefoxx]

What is the foot print of your tank, it is as important as the number of gallons. If you have a 6' tank, your 5 tangs might be ok, but if it is a 4' one, I would not do it.
Your fish were still small and young that is why you did not see any aggression yet. Tang are more prone to get ick than other fish.
I think that 20 fish in your tank, especially if you have other fish that will become as big as your tangs you have more than enough.
I have 125G and had 14 fish for a long time and I had only 2 fish that would be comparable in size to your tangs. I lost my 12+ years clown a while back and will replace them and may be will buy an extra fish along with them too, I will not go over 16 fish. In the mean time I added snails and shrimps. These can be fun too.
If you only had fish the size of firefish, you could get 40 easily.
My 3 years old hippo tang got ick around 2 month ago and recovered on its own. I did no treat him in anyway, just kept him fed. No other fish got sick. But my tank is over 12 years old.
If your LFS tried to slow down your purchase, I would go back to see them. To me it means they care more about the fish than about making a quick buck.

Agree 100%

 

[southeastfishaddict]

thank you for your reply vetteguy, so you think that more than likely I will lose all of my fish? I have about twenty of them now and it looks like they are all doing a lot better now. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to be able to take them out since they are extremely fast and there is a lot of Rockwork. This is my tank setup here. I purchased some ick polyp lab, but not sure how effective it will be at this stage.

Agree 100%

What is the foot print of your tank, it is as important as the number of gallons. If you have a 6' tank, your 5 tangs might be ok, but if it is a 4' one, I would not do it.
Your fish were still small and young that is why you did not see any aggression yet. Tang are more prone to get ick than other fish.
I think that 20 fish in your tank, especially if you have other fish that will become as big as your tangs you have more than enough.
I have 125G and had 14 fish for a long time and I had only 2 fish that would be comparable in size to your tangs. I lost my 12+ years clown a while back and will replace them and may be will buy an extra fish along with them too, I will not go over 16 fish. In the mean time I added snails and shrimps. These can be fun too.
If you only had fish the size of firefish, you could get 40 easily.
My 3 years old hippo tang got ick around 2 month ago and recovered on its own. I did no treat him in anyway, just kept him fed. No other fish got sick. But my tank is over 12 years old.
If your LFS tried to slow down your purchase, I would go back to see them. To me it means they care more about the fish than about making a quick buck.

Hi Nemo & Friends, these are my tank specifications:

Total System Water Volume: 164 Gallons
Display Tank Water Volume: 132 Gallons
Dimensions: 59.1“L x 25.6“W x 23.6“H

Most of my fish are small clownfish, blue damsel fish, fire fish, etc.. but then towards the end tha’s when I started in the little larger species of fish, like the blue throat trigger, fox face and the tangs.. I was told to add them all at once to reduce aggression. I think the main issue was that I did all of this within a months time. Maybe the water was not cycled enough? I have tons of live rock, sand and put in the micro bacteria quick start liquid treatment and the bio filter block ..

 

[littlefoxx]

Hi Nemo & Friends, these are my tank specifications:

Total System Water Volume: 164 Gallons
Display Tank Water Volume: 132 Gallons
Dimensions: 59.1“L x 25.6“W x 23.6“H

Most of my fish are small clownfish, blue damsel fish, fire fish, etc.. but then towards the end tha’s when I started in the little larger species of fish, like the blue throat trigger, fox face and the tangs.. I was told to add them all at once to reduce aggression. I think the main issue was that I did all of this within a months time. Maybe the water was not cycled enough? I have tons of live rock, sand and put in the micro bacteria quick start liquid treatment and the bio filter block ..

Yeah 20 fish in a months time will overload the system, you probably will see a large nutrient spike soon, especially with the trigger, fox and tangs. Poop machines.
I have an oversized skimmer and do larger water changes monthly on my tank because of the fish I have in my tank

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Yeah 20 fish in a months time will overload the system, you probably will see a large nutrient spike soon, especially with the trigger, fox and tangs. Poop machines.
I have an oversized skimmer and do larger water changes monthly on my tank because of the fish I have in my tank

Got it, I agree little fox. My fish tank maintenance people were supposed to stop in last week, but now they rescheduled me for next week Wednesday. So I replaced 15 gallons of salt water. Also, I’ve been adding the RODI to the autorefil box every few days. Not sure if that helps keep it clean as well..

 

[littlefoxx]

Got it, I agree little fox. My fish tank maintenance people were supposed to stop in last week, but now they rescheduled me for next week Wednesday. So I replaced 15 gallons of salt water. Also, I’ve been adding the RODI to the autorefil box every few days. Not sure if that helps keep it clean as well..

No thats to replace water that evaporates. Salt doesnt so to keep salinity stable RO needs to be added when it evaporates. Did you test your levels before doing the water change? Cause if youre not testing and just do a water change like that you could mess with the bio load in a negative way, ie taking good bacteria out especially if the tank is this new. If I were you I would research the basics for saltwater tanks so you understand the parameters and chemistry a little better to be able to keep your water stable for your fish and corals if you add any (should not add any corals before the 3 month mark, 6 worked better in my case by the way). Theres also some really good books out there about basic maintaining of a tank that would be a good read for you. @EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal and @ISpeakForTheSeas and @Randy Holmes-Farley are good people to also seek info from in this area as well, theyre better at explaining that part of reefing than I an Lol, science is not my forte

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Thank you for your input little fox. That’s one of the problems that I’ve been having with this hobby, everyone tells you to do something different. I’ve read many articles where it says that water changes will not affect the good bacteria, since it’s stored in the rocks, sand, etc. Also, I read that you’re not required to wait for your tank to be cycled to add coral, as long as your parameters (salt, alkalinity, calcium & magnesium) you are good to go with adding them immediately, even prior to adding any fish.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

& yes, I have been testing. My LFS does it for me every time I go. I also have Hanna test kits where I do it myself. Trust me, I’ve invested a good amount of money and effort with this. I’m just going to take it easy for a while and let things settle. I’ve noticed that the majority of the people that come here for help are very emotional and are in a rush for a solution. Sometimes you just need to let things be, because you can be making hasty decisions and start doing idiotic things like raising the heat or medicating the fish incorrectly where it stresses them out even more.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Cause if youre not testing and just do a water change like that you could mess with the bio load in a negative way, ie taking good bacteria out especially if the tank is this new.

This is not true. Water changes do not remove nitrifying bacteria in any meaningful way.

I’ve read many articles where it says that water changes will not affect the good bacteria, since it’s stored in the rocks, sand, etc.

This is correct.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Also, I read that you’re not required to wait for your tank to be cycled to add coral, as long as your parameters (salt, alkalinity, calcium & magnesium) you are good to go with adding them immediately, even prior to adding any fish.

While this is technically true, it's not generally the best practice. Ammonia is a food source for coral, so the presence of small amounts of ammonia is not harmful to coral. However, if the tank has not gone through the initial "cycle", it is very likely to be too unstable for many corals to do well. On top of this, a brand new tank will still need to go through the initial algae stages, and coral can suffer if algae growth outpaces consumers... You're looking for a balanced system which takes some patience to achieve.

 

[littlefoxx]

This is not true. Water changes do not remove nitrifying bacteria in any meaningful way.


This is correct.

exactly why I tagged you

 

[Devaji]

at this point to have to decide what you are willing to do and what style of reefing you want to do.

some have great success with out QTing and going for a natural biological style of reefing.
others QT everything wet that goes into the system.

both are valid approaches to keeping healthy fish., and like life, each has there pros and cons.
each has a methodology, tools and style .both has people that succeed and fail.

for the non Qting read @Paul B book on reefing.
for the Qted approach get on the humblefish forums best place for QTing that I have found.

so here you are you HAVE some sort of issue with the tank. it might be just to fast to soon, OR it could be velvet or ick.
I would try to ID what going on so you can treat for that issue.

you have 2 options.

1.pull the fish put in to a stock tank or the like let the tank go fallow and treat the fish. you may loose some fish in the process.

2. leave the fish on the DT and treat there. you will need to know what going on so you can treat for that issue. you may loose fish here too.
(seems like you are leaning towards this)

comes down to what you are willing to do. what the other half "lets" you do.

is this going to be a FOWLR for ever? if so copper might be a good approach. ( with hanna checker ) but the rocks will adsorb the copper power so you never can do reef with the rock with out a ton of work to get it out.

things like UV properly setup help in management, as well as high quality fresh foods with live bacteria. I am not saying that is a cure more preventive just like in us humans where good diet gose a long way in heath but once there is a problem a green juice is not going to cure that cancer right away.

basically with QTing you are proactively treating the fish,inverts ect. and not doing it one is managing issues that might show up. but very common with the supply chain and how we get fish in our hobby.

there are vendors out there that Qt fish for you so you dont have to. yes its more $$ but cheaper than loosing a ton of fish or the work of trying to catch them.
I am leaning towards going that route for my 200/275 FOWLR but it is tempting to either not QT at all and go with adding real ocean LR/LS the more biological way, but man loosing a tankfull of fish is hard we have all been there.

anyway good luck!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Vetteguy, do you think it would be safe to use Polyp Lab Medic with General cure ? Because the polyp lab medicine is coming in tomorrow & wanted to get some medicine in the tank as soon as possible .. or should I hold off

You can mix but not advisable