When do you add more calcium hydroxide to Kalk stirrer?

[ScottB]

I guess I should update to suggest that if you dose enough kalkwasser -- even if it does not seem to keep fully saturated for very long at all -- you can get where you need to be. My inline EC meter bounces around 550-650, but pH is holding up satisfactorily. The APEX DOS is pushing out 2liters of kalkwasser from 20:00 to 08:00hrs and one liter from 08:00 to 20:00hrs.

That overnight low point was with extra people in the house.

 

[sdreef]

I guess I should update to suggest that if you dose enough kalkwasser -- even if it does not seem to keep fully saturated for very long at all -- you can get where you need to be. My inline EC meter bounces around 550-650, but pH is holding up satisfactorily. The APEX DOS is pushing out 2liters of kalkwasser from 20:00 to 08:00hrs and one liter from 08:00 to 20:00hrs.

That overnight low point was with extra people in the house.

Have you established a routine for adding kalk to the stirrer? I'm interested in your observations when you add more kalk to the stirrer. Do you find that you need to adjust the doser for alkalinity or calcium. Do you find any noteable effect on pH when you increase the potency of the solution? Or do you have a routine that maintains consistent potency of the solution? Thanks

 

[ScottB]

Have you established a routine for adding kalk to the stirrer? I'm interested in your observations when you add more kalk to the stirrer. Do you find that you need to adjust the doser for alkalinity or calcium. Do you find any noteable effect on pH when you increase the potency of the solution? Or do you have a routine that maintains consistent potency of the solution? Thanks

I don't have a strong feedback loop to describe just yet. I essentially just cribbed @Randy Holmes-Farley 's method of reloading every two weeks. It does strengthen the solution for sure as measured by the inline EC meter, but doesn't make for significant changes in pH or ALK measured at the system level. Kinda hard to separate out the significant changes in my ambient CO2 levels from what the kalk dose is doing. My CO2 ranges from 395 to nearly 800ppm depending whether the house is "open" or shut and how many people are in the house.

I have noticed that OVER TIME, my ALK consumption has been increasing and my rate of coralline growth has accelerated since I got the kalk online and maintained my pH range much better.

I am going to reload today. My current dose amount is 3200ml with only 600ml getting dosed during the photoperiod.

 

[ScottB]

I don't have a strong feedback loop to describe just yet. I essentially just cribbed @Randy Holmes-Farley 's method of reloading every two weeks. It does strengthen the solution for sure as measured by the inline EC meter, but doesn't make for significant changes in pH or ALK measured at the system level. Kinda hard to separate out the significant changes in my ambient CO2 levels from what the kalk dose is doing. My CO2 ranges from 395 to nearly 800ppm depending whether the house is "open" or shut and how many people are in the house.

I have noticed that OVER TIME, my ALK consumption has been increasing and my rate of coralline growth has accelerated since I got the kalk online and maintained my pH range much better.

I am going to reload today. My current dose amount is 3200ml with only 600ml getting dosed during the photoperiod.

Have you established a routine for adding kalk to the stirrer? I'm interested in your observations when you add more kalk to the stirrer. Do you find that you need to adjust the doser for alkalinity or calcium. Do you find any noteable effect on pH when you increase the potency of the solution? Or do you have a routine that maintains consistent potency of the solution? Thanks

Here I go replying to myself again... I am just realizing that my answer assumes someone followed my thread from the beginning which can be a faulty assumption.

The addition of the stirrer and 3200ml of dosing kalk has effectively cut my 2-Part ESV dosing by just more than half. From 450ml combined to 220ml per day. I got there incrementally over several weeks of dialing/testing.

First, I was trying to solve for a decent pH range. Then, I was adjusting 2-Part so as to maintain roughly 8dkh and 450 Ca.

Since I have been keeping pH healthy, my dKH has gradually been dropping a bit now kicking around 7 to 7.4.

Now that I have reloaded, I will see if that changes dkh but I do not expect it to do much. Then I will tweak up on the 2-Part.

 

[sdreef]

Here I go replying to myself again... I am just realizing that my answer assumes someone followed my thread from the beginning which can be a faulty assumption.

The addition of the stirrer and 3200ml of dosing kalk has effectively cut my 2-Part ESV dosing by just more than half. From 450ml combined to 220ml per day. I got there incrementally over several weeks of dialing/testing.

First, I was trying to solve for a decent pH range. Then, I was adjusting 2-Part so as to maintain roughly 8dkh and 450 Ca.

Since I have been keeping pH healthy, my dKH has gradually been dropping a bit now kicking around 7 to 7.4.

Now that I have reloaded, I will see if that changes dkh but I do not expect it to do much. Then I will tweak up on the 2-Part.

Thanks, that's helpful. I added a kalk stirrer to the system recently.

I was under the impression that as fresh water is added to the stirrer and the kalk solution gets displaced, the undissolved kalk would enter solution and maintain the potency, but have read that's not the case. I have a conductivity probe on the way to monitor the potency. I would like to do my best to reduce the variability in the concentration of the solution so I can focus on adjusting the volume of the solution without worrying about changes in the concentration.

Dosing the Kalk at night makes sense to flatten the pH curve, but has this increased variability in the kH level during the day? Have you adjusted the time of your 2 part dosing?

 

[ScottB]

Thanks, that's helpful. I added a kalk stirrer to the system recently.

I was under the impression that as fresh water is added to the stirrer and the kalk solution gets displaced, the undissolved kalk would enter solution and maintain the potency, but have learned that's not the case. I have a conductivity probe on the way to monitor the potency. I would like to do my best to reduce the variability in the concentration of the solution so I can focus on adjusting the volume of the solution without worrying about changes in the concentration.

Dosing the Kalk at night makes sense to flatten the pH curve, but has this increased variability in the kH level during the day? Have you adjusted the time of your 2 part dosing?

I don't measure dkh intra-day, but I am sure there is at least a 1/2 point swing from a morning high to evening low. I've always dosed ALK over night and Ca during the day to get that little pH boost from the ALK.

Your build thread is outstanding btw. I just took another look. I've obviously missed some updates but will sweep through it again.

 

[sdreef]

I don't measure dkh intra-day, but I am sure there is at least a 1/2 point swing from a morning high to evening low. I've always dosed ALK over night and Ca during the day to get that little pH boost from the ALK.

Your build thread is outstanding btw. I just took another look. I've obviously missed some updates but will sweep through it again.

Thanks, I initially was planning on bringing a calcium reactor on line first, but you influenced my decision and I decided to go with kalk first. It's a work in progress.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks, I initially was planning on bringing a calcium reactor on line first, but you influenced my decision and I decided to go with kalk first. It's a work in progress

I think that is a good call. Get your game on with kalk stirrer first so that you feel comfortable managing pH. Even the best tuned, dual canister CaRx will be adding CO2 to the water.

And even though we all tell the new reefers to ignore pH, it really does matter for SPS in my experience. The pace of coralline growth is the most obvious, but I can see it in the acros as well.

 

[sdreef]

I think that is a good call. Get your game on with kalk stirrer first so that you feel comfortable managing pH. Even the best tuned, dual canister CaRx will be adding CO2 to the water.

And even though we all tell the new reefers to ignore pH, it really does matter for SPS in my experience. The pace of coralline growth is the most obvious, but I can see it in the acros as well.

I agree with you. My experience has been the same. I observed a near immediate increase in the growth of coralline once I maintained the pH above 8. When the pH sags as media in the CO2 scrubber gets depleted I notice the alkalinity consumption decrease which I equate with slower growth.

I’m excited to get the calcium reactor going. Something that i really like about the concept, but going to prioritize keeping the pH on track first.

 

[ScottB]

I agree with you. My experience has been the same. I observed a near immediate increase in the growth of coralline once I maintained the pH above 8. When the pH sags as media in the CO2 scrubber gets depleted I notice the alkalinity consumption decrease which I equate with slower growth.

I’m excited to get the calcium reactor going. Something that i really like about the concept, but going to prioritize keeping the pH on track first.

Yeah, I saw you ordered the Deltek Twin auto. Happy to have you school me on running that. Wish I had gone that route (I think). Instead I went with Aquarium Engineering ACR. I ran it for about a year okay before I broke it. It is the reason I bought the stirrer; just wish I had bought it earlier. I will eventually go back to CaRx. I am not rushed though. I am now up to 3.6 liters of kalk per cycle so I am not having to refill my DOS with 2Part every three days like I was pre the CaRx.

Still some noise in the pH chart but the trend is improving.

 

[ScottB]

Just in case people are still tinkering I thought I would update how this is all going. I am still pretty much following the @Randy Holmes-Farley nonchalant method of adding calcium hydroxide powder to the stirrer every 2 weeks. My pH charts stay reasonably good even when the windows get shut or the kid(s) come home. When both happen I can get lower but still WAY better than before.

By about the 2 week mark, the stirrer has a noticeably thinner layer of white sludge getting pushed around. Maybe 1/3rd of an inch. Then, I dump in a very precise 3/4 of an inch more on top.

I have not had to change the DOS schedule for a while, still 3600ml each cycle -- 2900ml of that when lights are out.

Also to note: my dKH really does not move that much when I dump in new kalk. Slightly, but it evens out fine.

 

[sdreef]

Just in case people are still tinkering I thought I would update how this is all going. I am still pretty much following the @Randy Holmes-Farley nonchalant method of adding calcium hydroxide powder to the stirrer every 2 weeks. My pH charts stay reasonably good even when the windows get shut or the kid(s) come home. When both happen I can get lower but still WAY better than before.

By about the 2 week mark, the stirrer has a noticeably thinner layer of white sludge getting pushed around. Maybe 1/3rd of an inch. Then, I dump in a very precise 3/4 of an inch more on top.

I have not had to change the DOS schedule for a while, still 3600ml each cycle -- 2900ml of that when lights are out.

Also to note: my dKH really does not move that much when I dump in new kalk. Slightly, but it evens out fine.

Thanks for the update. I'm still tinkering and making adjustments. I added a PM2 and conductivity probe to try to keep the potency of the solution in the kalk stirrer in a consistent range. I'm still working to find the best practice with the stirrer.

My conductivity probe is calibrated to measuring saturated solution at about 10 mS/cm which makes the math easy. I have a pretty healthy layer of kalk at the bottom of the stirrer and still find the potency gradually decreasing a couple percent per day. Can see on the graph where I added a cup of kalk last weekend to increase the potency. I'm currently adding about 1500 mL through the stirrer / 24 hours.

 

[Koigula]

Well I found that interesting.

Pretty much all Kalk additions are undersaturated and fairly linear with saturation level so you are at about 85% saturation. I would not chase this dragon and infact just be happy with 90% saturation. I use a Hanna EC pen and get same results at about 9.3 mS/cm out of 10.3 theoretical. More stirring is more air contact so a silly battle and not needed.

RODI made from well water can have a lot of CO2 in it. Next time you do a clean out of stirrer place an air stone in the RODI reseviour and see if that helps a bit. Sometimes it does.

Here is a good choice for an EC pen with lime water saturation right in the mid range of the testing range. It also costs several bags of premium grade kalkwasser powder.

Coral hsbandry has not progressed considerably since the standard to T5 bulbs and kalk metering.

DiST®4 Waterproof EC Tester (0.00-20.00 mS/cm)

The Hanna Instruments HI98304 DiST 4 conductivity tester is a rugged and reliable pocket-sized tester that offers quick and accurate high-range readings of EC readings up to 20.00 mS/cm.

www.hannainst.com

 

[Aimforever]

Just in case people are still tinkering I thought I would update how this is all going. I am still pretty much following the @Randy Holmes-Farley nonchalant method of adding calcium hydroxide powder to the stirrer every 2 weeks. My pH charts stay reasonably good even when the windows get shut or the kid(s) come home. When both happen I can get lower but still WAY better than before.

By about the 2 week mark, the stirrer has a noticeably thinner layer of white sludge getting pushed around. Maybe 1/3rd of an inch. Then, I dump in a very precise 3/4 of an inch more on top.

I have not had to change the DOS schedule for a while, still 3600ml each cycle -- 2900ml of that when lights are out.

Also to note: my dKH really does not move that much when I dump in new kalk. Slightly, but it evens out fine.

Do you mind sharing how you setup your programming? I am planning to try adding a kalk stirrer as well to try to help stabilize pH.

I use 2-part currently. I’ve been kicking around several ideas on how to approach programming a DOS to push RO through the kalk stirrer.

Like you, will be mainly at night. Just curious how you programmed yours.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you mind sharing how you setup your programming? I am planning to try adding a kalk stirrer as well to try to help stabilize pH.

I use 2-part currently. I’ve been kicking around several ideas on how to approach programming a DOS to push RO through the kalk stirrer.

Like you, will be mainly at night. Just curious how you programmed yours.

You could just switch to a very high pH two part using hydroxide and avoid the stirrer.

 

[Aimforever]

You could just switch to a very high pH two part using hydroxide and avoid the stirrer.

I’m using BRS 2 part with the soda ash for alkalinity. I didn’t know there was a different 2 part that had more of a pH boost! Any links to where I can purchase or read more? Very much appreciate the suggestion!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m using BRS 2 part with the soda ash for alkalinity. I didn’t know there was a different 2 part that had more of a pH boost! Any links to where I can purchase or read more? Very much appreciate the suggestion!

In the first one, you just swap in sodium hydroxide for the sodium carbonate, the second recipe is more complicated.

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd also suggest an improvement which is to use Balling Part C from BRS as opposed to my part 3 (the magnesium part that BRS sells).

 

[Aimforever]

Randy thanks so much for the info. Have given me lots to read about!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy thanks so much for the info. Have given me lots to read about!!

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.