When does bioload become an issue?

[Ernie C]

I would do the larger skimmer - but then again - you dont really have a nutrient problem - and your pH is basically not bad. Do you have good flow in your tank (across the surface) - that might be a way to go as well as trying to provide fresh air to the room in which your tank is

My tank is open on top and the power heads point slightly upward to agitate the surface. I've never been able to figure out why my ph won't go any higher than 8.1 and without kalk over night wants to go as low as almost 7.6. I ran tubing to the outside and have tried windows open, but its very hot in miami so not really an option. Have re-calibrated neptune ph probe a few times and also have a salifert ph test that reads slightly higher than the probe. Maybe i should try a larger skimmer and run it more dry to minimize too much skimming. I could upgrade to a reef octopus 152 or 202? any thoughts?

 

[MnFish1]

My tank is open on top and the power heads point slightly upward to agitate the surface. I've never been able to figure out why my ph won't go any higher than 8.1 and without kalk over night wants to go as low as almost 7.6. I ran tubing to the outside and have tried windows open, but its very hot in miami so not really an option. Have re-calibrated neptune ph probe a few times and also have a salifert ph test that reads slightly higher than the probe. Maybe i should try a larger skimmer and run it more dry to minimize too much skimming. I could upgrade to a reef octopus 152 or 202? any thoughts?

Dont know - I have read this debate about where the power heads should be - down below pointing up - or at water level pointing across. I go more for at the top at water level going across

 

[HawaiianReef]

..
Sorry. Mistake made.

 

[jsker]

This is perfectly fine IMHO

+1

off topic regarding ph, do yo all think an oversized skimmer would help with raising ph if air intake is outside air? I have Reef Octopus 110 Classic. Manufacturer Rates it for tanks up to 100 gallons but BRS recommends it for tanks up to 75 gallons. I have 93 gallon total water volume minus rock volume.

That is fine for the PH

I would do the larger skimmer - but then again - you dont really have a nutrient problem - and your pH is basically not bad. Do you have good flow in your tank (across the surface) - that might be a way to go as well as trying to provide fresh air to the room in which your tank is

My suggestion for bring down the nutrients would be a seeded bio media such siprox, matrex or life bio fil to bring down the No3's and run GFO to bring down the Po4's

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Don't forget everyone, some media made of silica and others different materials, if silica, going to add into tank. Maybe ok, may not. But a reminder

H2O can desolve anything, some elements desolve quick others centuries

 

[Stigigemla]

To me it sounds strange to run chaeto when nitrate or phosphate is zero. To me a chaeto reactor is used to fix a problem of high values.

The golden rule: If You dont have a problem - Dont fix it.

There is another rule I rate high: Tanks dont like fast changes.
I recommend: Half the amount of chaeto You are running for a month. If The values still are zero without adding nitrate or phosphate half the amount again.
Afte the 2 months You can consider to take out all the chaeto.

 

[Ernie C]

To me it sounds strange to run chaeto when nitrate or phosphate is zero. To me a chaeto reactor is used to fix a problem of high values.

The golden rule: If You dont have a problem - Dont fix it.

There is another rule I rate high: Tanks dont like fast changes.
I recommend: Half the amount of chaeto You are running for a month. If The values still are zero without adding nitrate or phosphate half the amount again.
Afte the 2 months You can consider to take out all the chaeto.

I guess i've always thought chaeto in the sump would keep display tank from ugly algae, also houses pods and amphipods. I guess i can remove it slowly like you suggested and see how nitrates and phosphates react. The levels stay somewhat steady even with the chaeto but if they drop in the slightest i dose, but i don't do it regularly. Thanks for the advise.

 

[Stigigemla]

There is another way to diminish the impact of the caeto and that is to have the light on shorter time. In that way the pods will have a greater home.

 

[MnFish1]

To me it sounds strange to run chaeto when nitrate or phosphate is zero. To me a chaeto reactor is used to fix a problem of high values.

The golden rule: If You dont have a problem - Dont fix it.

There is another rule I rate high: Tanks dont like fast changes.
I recommend: Half the amount of chaeto You are running for a month. If The values still are zero without adding nitrate or phosphate half the amount again.
Afte the 2 months You can consider to take out all the chaeto.

Since its all opinion - I'll give mine - I disagree with this - for a couple reasons.

The values of the nutrients are not really 'zero' the nutrients are just being used as quickly as they are being produced. So - while removing chaeto will make a difference in nutrients - something will still take them up. So - for people that 'dose nutrients' - they may get faster growth - thus their levels are always slightly higher than zero. But the growth (depending on what's in the tank) will be the stuff that takes up nutrients the fastest. Algae, coral, etc.

I agree that tanks don't like fast changes. But - sometimes 'slow is not always better'. For example. People that take 6 months to cycle a tank.... Again JMHO

 

[MnFish1]

we have been seeing lots of posts lately about how titration test kits give wildly varying answers

name the best kit...we can find a post of it being calibrated against another kit reading a large difference

some zeros are tens

some tens are 40's nitrate, how does anyone know their levels of nutrients

I agree that some of the tests are difficult to read. But - IMHO that doesn't mean they shouldn't be done. Especially if done correctly and repeatedly (the same way). I view it this way - as long as you can get an idea of the value - the absolute number is not that important. For example - I dont care if my alkalinity is 8.5 one day and 8.7 the next. I do care if it goes from 8 to 10 in a week. If my nitrate is 10 or 30 I dont care as long as it isn't going from 10 to 30 to 90. BTW - I have not seen that much variability in my testing from week to week. I do not use them to maintain my tank per se - but merely to have on hand if there appears to be a problem. (though I do use Ca and Alk tests for dosing purposes)

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/redsea-nitrate-test-different-results.606170/


I once made a running tally in a thread we were posting in regarding 9 causes of titration misreads, we also forgot time each reading has to sit varies among types. sooo many variables. there really were nine lol wish I could find it

some other causes of drift off the top:
-line fill, many are above/below fill line
-use of Prime adulterates all future tests on that water sample
-reagent shaking/prep not just within expiry date
-kitchen lighting hue
-nitrite/ nitrate crossreads, happens across testers
-fw vs marine cards are common interchanges I know that's not applicable here
-I think the record spread Ive seen was fifty ppm diff between red sea and another


Lobbing horseshoes seems more accurate
ok someone make a new article:

Mail out fifteen lab calibrated / coded samples to hobbyists here

Have em report the code and their reading back for the study. Code label on samples prevents testing bias


Interpret the data returned back write it up

I’ll be making data involving randomly tossing lawn darts behind my back into a circle fifty yards away we w compare 2019 notes on accuracy

 

[DivingTheWorld]

IMO, if you are dosing phosphate/nitrate, your bio load is too small. You can definitely run a tank just fine that way, but I prefer not dosing by having more fish. I mean it is a fish tank after all! So back to your original post, it sounds like you're asking if it's ok to add more fish? Yes. I'm curious, what happens if you stop dosing? Do your acros/sps start to get pale? And what exactly are your phosphate/nitrate levels? It doesn't sound like you have a bunch of algae in your tank, so your testing levels should be fairly accurate.

My acro tank is 89g total system volume, so similar to yours. I run a few tablespoons of GFO and my skimmer dry. No bio-pellets, carbon dosing, chaeto, ats, etc. I run my skimmer mostly to keep the pH up. For fish, I have:

1 Blue Tang
1 Copperband Butterfly:
4 Lyretail Anthias
2 Green Chromis
2 Clownfish
1 Black Cap Gramma
1 Bangaii Cardinal

Conventional wisdom would call my tank overstocked, but I'm able to maintain Nitrate/Phosphate at 5/0.05 without dosing and with minimal filtration.

 

[MnFish1]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/redsea-nitrate-test-different-results.606170/


I once made a running tally in a thread we were posting in regarding 9 causes of titration misreads, we also forgot time each reading has to sit varies among types. sooo many variables. there really were nine lol wish I could find it

some other causes of drift off the top:
-line fill, many are above/below fill line
-reagent shaking/prep not just within expiry date
-kitchen lighting hue
-fw vs marine cards are common interchanges I know that's not applicable here
-I think the record spread Ive seen was fifty ppm diff between red sea and another

But - in reality - if the test is being done improperly - you cant blame the 'test'. I actually prefer the API tests - because at the levels I strive for - I can get a general idea. Not perfect - and the results are reproducible. I have looked at saldiert and some others - and the color change between the different levels is so subtle - that you can almost randomly pick any value. Hanna were not reproducible for me (i.e. doing the same test 3 times with 3 different samples was not very precise. )

 

[Ernie C]

IMO, if you are dosing phosphate/nitrate, your bio load is too small. You can definitely run a tank just fine that way, but I prefer not dosing by having more fish. I mean it is a fish tank after all! So back to your original post, it sounds like you're asking if it's ok to add more fish? Yes. I'm curious, what happens if you stop dosing? Do your acros/sps start to get pale? And what exactly are your phosphate/nitrate levels? It doesn't sound like you have a bunch of algae in your tank, so your testing levels should be fairly accurate.

My acro tank is 89g total system volume, so similar to yours. I run a few tablespoons of GFO and my skimmer dry. No bio-pellets, carbon dosing, chaeto, ats, etc. I run my skimmer mostly to keep the pH up. For fish, I have:

1 Blue Tang
1 Copperband Butterfly:
4 Lyretail Anthias
2 Green Chromis
2 Clownfish
1 Black Cap Gramma
1 Bangaii Cardinal

Conventional wisdom would call my tank overstocked, but I'm able to maintain Nitrate/Phosphate at 5/0.05 without dosing and with minimal filtration.

Yes our tanks are very similar, my nitrate and phosphates usually stay at around 6/.04 I also run the skimmer to help with PH as i run air intake from outside, but doesn't help too much, I also dose Kalk overnight to keep it from dropping while lights off. I don't dose regularly, but maybe weekly if tests show a dip in NO3/PO4. Don't plan on doing anything drastic but maybe reduce chaeto and observe, maybe i should just leave some live rock rubble in the sump and eventually eliminate the chaeto. I just worry about algae starting to grow in the display. Right now i just have random bubble algea that i pick off here and there.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You should be fine.. As long as your system is balanced and you have adequate filtration , even skimming to break down waste- you are safe with the load imposed on your system. This also is supported by the value of water changes

 

[Bunnee911]

I still use api tests. Have for 20 something years. Some of my test tubes say Doc Wellfish. They will get you in the ballpark.

Btw, I have had dinos twice. Both times, my nitrates and phosphate were reading zeroish.

 

[MPS]

i have low ph issues so have outside air coming into the skimmer so don't really want to turn it off. I don't have any other reactors or media just some chaeto and rubble in the sump that i have lit over night until the tank lights come on. So far the tank is doing great after dealing with some uglies, but sometimes you want that extra fish and i don't want to push my luck. =)
If i could only catch those pesky damsels. lol

I hate it when early fish choices get in the way of adding something better.
Don’t forget that you can remove the skimmer cup to allow it to overflow while keeping the aeration going.

 

[Stigigemla]

I know there is an input of phosporous and organic nitrogen in every tank You feed. But I am definitly certain the values will go to zero. Not 24 hours a day but some. Nitrate will probably be zero all the time because the organic nitrogen will be consumed as ammonia, amino acids and urea.
But in my experience most corals do better with readable values of nitrogen and phosphorous. They grow faster and show better colors. (Except some Acropora)

An important thing to consider is also that a tank with the readable values is more stable. There are numerous examples of tank crashes because the values has zeroed fast. Maybe thats because the bacteria culture in the tank will change if You have zero nitrate.


If it happens slowly nothing else will happen than that corals will slowly bleach. Euphyllias first and then Seriatopora and others. But they survive and grow slow. The Euphyllias will look as frogspawn with almost no color in strong light but they survive and grow. I have done this for more than 2 years. But when I increased the values colors came back.

 

[BeejReef]

i have low ph issues so have outside air coming into the skimmer so don't really want to turn it off. I don't have any other reactors or media just some chaeto and rubble in the sump that i have lit over night until the tank lights come on. So far the tank is doing great after dealing with some uglies, but sometimes you want that extra fish and i don't want to push my luck. =)
If i could only catch those pesky damsels. lol

Your stocking list doesn't jump off the page as HEAVY IMHO.

 

[Pdash]

But - in reality - if the test is being done improperly - you cant blame the 'test'. I actually prefer the API tests - because at the levels I strive for - I can get a general idea. Not perfect - and the results are reproducible. I have looked at saldiert and some others - and the color change between the different levels is so subtle - that you can almost randomly pick any value. Hanna were not reproducible for me (i.e. doing the same test 3 times with 3 different samples was not very precise. )

That is so weird. I've always been able to consistently produce the same numbers with my Hanna test. I think I did 8 tests back to back when I first got it and I was always plus or minus .1 dKH. My guess is I am even more consistent now, since I bought their reference sample and standardized my technique, and I'm now using a pipettor, etc.