When to deal with stray voltage.

[Dom]

Joining R2R has been a great experience thus far, however, it's also been a bit of a blow to my ego! LOL

It is clear that my knowledge on reef keeping isn't as abundant as I believed. In the 10 days or so since I've joined, so much more has come to my attention and it is clear that I have much more to learn. Perhaps I should keep my thoughts to myself and just read.

Up until yesterday, I didn't think about stray voltage. Only after following a thread that seemed similar to a problem I am having did I learn of this.

Recently, I got zapped when I rested my hand on my iron stand and then placed my other hand in the tank. This was the usual position I took to support myself while working in the tank and NEVER had this problem.

I quickly discovered the cheapo 300 watt heater in the sump had shattered. I pulled it out and replaced it with a 300 watt Marineland from the LFS. Problem solved... so I thought.

After reading about stray voltage, I decided to check my tank and discovered 38v in the water. I have an electrical education and understand that voltage is pressure and generally not an issue. CURRENT is an issue, and brother, did I run into plenty of it when my heater broke!!! LOL

So, I disconnected my new protein skimmer pump, circulation pump, power head and heater. When I tested, I still had 22 volts. How is that possible? There is nothing electrical in the tank when testing.

I've read that some voltage is normal from submersible pumps and such. But is this something that I need to correct and if so, how?

 

[blacktippr]

I was having an issue , believe it or not from my RODI, it is connected to a reservoir and from there to an ATO pump.

Somehow it was transferring voltage to my tank even when not producing water but RO still plugged to the wall, about 30-35 volts on my tank. I got zapped when I sat on my refugium steel frame to clean the glass.

I was having issues at the time with corals and HLLE Lateral line erosion on some fish.

 

[briancarterkc]

Joining R2R has been a great experience thus far, however, it's also been a bit of a blow to my ego! LOL

It is clear that my knowledge on reef keeping isn't as abundant as I believed. In the 10 days or so since I've joined, so much more has come to my attention and it is clear that I have much more to learn. Perhaps I should keep my thoughts to myself and just read.

Up until yesterday, I didn't think about stray voltage. Only after following a thread that seemed similar to a problem I am having did I learn of this.

Recently, I got zapped when I rested my hand on my iron stand and then placed my other hand in the tank. This was the usual position I took to support myself while working in the tank and NEVER had this problem.

I quickly discovered the cheapo 300 watt heater in the sump had shattered. I pulled it out and replaced it with a 300 watt Marineland from the LFS. Problem solved... so I thought.

After reading about stray voltage, I decided to check my tank and discovered 38v in the water. I have an electrical education and understand that voltage is pressure and generally not an issue. CURRENT is an issue, and brother, did I run into plenty of it when my heater broke!!! LOL

So, I disconnected my new protein skimmer pump, circulation pump, power head and heater. When I tested, I still had 22 volts. How is that possible? There is nothing electrical in the tank when testing.

I've read that some voltage is normal from submersible pumps and such. But is this something that I need to correct and if so, how?

You'll get varying opinions on the voltage...but, if you had a heater shatter I might worry about copper leaching into the water from the heating coil. You might want to get a polyfilter and run it for a while...if you have copper in your water it will turn color to let you know.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I've read that some voltage is normal from submersible pumps and such. But is this something that I need to correct and if so, how?[/QUOTE]

I have been told that magnetic impellors create induced voltage in the water due to the magnetic field. As a result any submersible pump can add voltage to the tank. I have used a grounded titanium probe for years in any tank I run just to mitigate the stray voltage. Some fish seem to react badly to the stray voltage an it may impair their lateral line an cause death.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have been told that magnetic impellors create induced voltage in the water due to the magnetic field. As a result any submersible pump can add voltage to the tank. I

yup

So, I disconnected my new protein skimmer pump, circulation pump, power head and heater. When I tested, I still had 22 volts. How is that possible? There is nothing electrical in the tank when testing.

With nothing on you have voltage?
Including lights?, And what kind?


Check the polarity of all the Outlets.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Gear-50...id=1462829576&sr=1-1&keywords=polarity+tester

 

[Dom]

I started a new thread specific to this issue. Please have a look.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/when-to-deal-with-stray-voltage.248098/

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I started a new thread specific to this issue. Please have a look.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/when-to-deal-with-stray-voltage.248098/

yes. That's this thread.

 

[Dom]

yes. That's this thread.

I feel silly. I get so many responses and sometimes lose track of which thread I'm in.

Just to recap a few things:

When I tested voltage, Neg probe was on the iron stand and positive probe was in the water. I got a reading of 38 volts.

I unplugged everything except lights and monitored voltage as I plugged devices back in. The voltage was 22 volts with everything disconnected (except lights which were off). As I plugged devices in, voltage continued to rise and when all were reconnected, I was back at 38 volts.

As I mentioned in another thread, I have an APC 1500 battery backup to support the tank in the event of a power outage. That rests on the bottom of the stand adjacent to the sump. When I placed it on the floor, voltage in the tank dropped to 10.2 volts with everything running. Should I be concerned with the 10.2 volts?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sounds like you found your culprit. One any way. 10v is not bad.
Heres a thing though. Most when testing voltage put one probe in the water and the other to ground in the outlet.
What your test is telling me is your stand is grounded or earthed. Likely earth if it is a metal stand.
Try the same test with water to ground and stand to ground.
Be cautious.

What the 15 dollar probe does is take all current to ground. Your residual voltage/current went from water to you to stand that is grounded.

The polarity tester will let you know if you have a good ground and make sure it is wired correctly. A hot ground or hot neutral reverse will probably let thing work but the current searching harder for a place to go as the path is scewed, on motors and t5 mh lights it makes residual voltage much worse.

 

[Waterjockey]

Interesting. I wonder if the tank water acts like a dielectric so the tank becomes a bit of a capacitor? If you put your meter in the lowest current setting, and connect the probes between your tank and your stand, do you read any current, and does the current reading then slowly drop off as you measure it?

Cheers!

 

[Dom]

Sounds like you found your culprit. One any way. 10v is not bad.
Heres a thing though. Most when testing voltage put one probe in the water and the other to ground in the outlet.
What your test is telling me is your stand is grounded or earthed. Likely earth if it is a metal stand.
Try the same test with water to ground and stand to ground.
Be cautious.

What the 15 dollar probe does is take all current to ground. Your residual voltage/current went from water to you to stand that is grounded.

The polarity tester will let you know if you have a good ground and make sure it is wired correctly. A hot ground or hot neutral reverse will probably let thing work but the current searching harder for a place to go as the path is scewed, on motors and t5 mh lights it makes residual voltage much worse.

I thought so too... but not so fast...

I've completely pulled the battery backup out of the loop. I've plugged everything into a Tripp Lite power strip and again checked voltage as recommended; negative probe in an open outlet on the strip and positive probe in the tank. Voltage is up around 42-45 volts; it would appear the APC wasn't the issue.

I disconnected everything except for the light and voltage was still at 22.5 volts. How can the light be responsible for voltage in the tank when there it simply rests on the plastic frame above the tank?

What I am able to conclude is this: With the power strip off, zero voltage. When I unplug everything and turn on the strip with light only, it goes up to 22.5 volts. Then as I plug in additional devices, the voltage keeps rising. Is it possible that the metal stand is picking up stray voltage from somewhere?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You really should test the polarity at the outlet.
Are they t5 or compacts.
Is it a retrofit kit or custom.
Are any of the light timers two prong or ground lifted or removed.

Did you test the ground to stand.
Or hot to stand.

The concern is yes the stand is allowing electricity to make a circuit.

Testing outlet polarity will assure electricity is flowing correctly from the source and back. Checking for correct grounds after the outlet makes sure residual has an easy path to ground.
Fields will still generate voltage and current.
Bad polarity on a unit will create larger fields and the ground voltage leak will be greater.
T5 create huge fields and are often f poorly grounded. Esp retrofit kits.

You just need to find out first if it's safe to ground the tank and likely the stand as well.
By checking the polarity of the outlet first so you don't ground the hot. If the outlet is wired wrong Get it?

I would guess the metal stand is already grounded or earthed already.

22 is not that bad comparatively but would not go in my house.

Be safe.
J

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Oh fwiw the power strip could be junk too.
Worth swapping if you have a better one on hand to test it.
Esp if the old one that has been in use a while. Salt creep is bind blowing and conductive.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Use a real ground!


Also, there is no "positive" and "negative" with AC. Doesn't matter what probe you are using where.

 

[melev]

I think you need to test it differently, at the outlet itself as one person mentioned. Getting a reading using the stand as one leg of the measurement is disconcerting. Here's my article: http://www.reefaddicts.com/content.php/45-How-to-Test-for-Stray-Electricity

 

[fab]

Perhaps I should keep my thoughts to myself and just read.

No. No. No.

You will learn much more by reading and engaging with others. Follow threads. Ask questions to clarify things that were not clear in your readings. Participate in dialogs. Test your ideas on others.

You will learn far less by being only passive. Until you do the work of carefully articulating your thoughts in spoken or in written words you are untested. You will learn from these efforts as your thoughts are proven to be either correct or flat wrong or just unclear.

 

[Dom]

You really should test the polarity at the outlet.
Are they t5 or compacts.
Is it a retrofit kit or custom.
Are any of the light timers two prong or ground lifted or removed.

Did you test the ground to stand.
Or hot to stand.

The concern is yes the stand is allowing electricity to make a circuit.

Testing outlet polarity will assure electricity is flowing correctly from the source and back. Checking for correct grounds after the outlet makes sure residual has an easy path to ground.
Fields will still generate voltage and current.
Bad polarity on a unit will create larger fields and the ground voltage leak will be greater.
T5 create huge fields and are often f poorly grounded. Esp retrofit kits.

You just need to find out first if it's safe to ground the tank and likely the stand as well.
By checking the polarity of the outlet first so you don't ground the hot. If the outlet is wired wrong Get it?

I would guess the metal stand is already grounded or earthed already.

22 is not that bad comparatively but would not go in my house.

Be safe.
J

- The light is an Orbit Marine LED Light with 24 hour Ramp Timer Pro LED Controller; It's just a few months old.

- From the ground to the stand shows 24.5 volts.

- When I set up the stand, I placed it on plastic furniture sliders... they look like plastic disks with foam rubber inside.

- I've checked polarity at the outlet and it is correct.

It seems that every device is adding some sort of voltage to the tank. I understand that this is normal, but so much? I am particularly concerned with the fact that I get voltage from ground to the stand and ground to the tank. I don't know what I was thinking when I used a metal stand; I usually build all of my stands. I got lazy; this was in my garage so I wire brushed it, put a fresh coat of Rust-Oleum on it an set it up.

My goal is 5v or less.

I'm thinking about building a new stand (wood).

 

[Dom]

Use a real ground!


Also, there is no "positive" and "negative" with AC. Doesn't matter what probe you are using where.

Please define "real ground".

 

[Waterjockey]

- The light is an Orbit Marine LED Light with 24 hour Ramp Timer Pro LED Controller; It's just a few months old.

- From the ground to the stand shows 24.5 volts.

- When I set up the stand, I placed it on plastic furniture sliders... they look like plastic disks with foam rubber inside.

- I've checked polarity at the outlet and it is correct.

It seems that every device is adding some sort of voltage to the tank. I understand that this is normal, but so much? I am particularly concerned with the fact that I get voltage from ground to the stand and ground to the tank. I don't know what I was thinking when I used a metal stand; I usually build all of my stands. I got lazy; this was in my garage so I wire brushed it, put a fresh coat of Rust-Oleum on it an set it up.

My goal is 5v or less.

I'm thinking about building a new stand (wood).

Hi Dom, did you try measuring if there was any current (likely in milliamps, if any)? Say between your stand and the ground plug on your outlet?

Cheers!

 

[redfishbluefish]

Please define "real ground".

Use an outlet....if need be, with an extension cord. Ideally use the "ground" hole for the probe. If not the ground hole, the screw holding the cover plate on would work as well.