Where do you install your heater(s): sump, DT, or both?

[bakbay]

My sump's temperature went down to a dangerous 76F (likely lower in DT) while I was away on vacation. Luckily my Apex sent the alert but I was not able to do anything remotely, except cranked up the Nest thermostat to heat the house to 82F! Thankfully, we flew home the following day and was able to recover with zero loss.

Current sump chambers: (1) overflow & heater (2) skimmer and (3) return pump & temp probes. Apparently, the skimmer overflowed and depleted the ATO reservoir, leaving the return pump with little/no water. Therefore, I suspect that the DT's temp was likely lower than 76F since the heated water wasn't returning to the DT.

So -- lessons learned to avoid a potential catastrophic failure in the future. I bought a second heater but should I put it in the DT tank for redundancy? I'm trying to have no wires inside the DT but I feel that this is the way to go. Alternatively, I can (and will) get another return pump to protect from equipment failure; but would not help in this scenario.

What do you guys recommend? Put both heaters in the sump or put one in the sump and one in the DT?

 

[Research Monkey]

I've seen setups where they place 1 in the sump and 1 in the overflow box. I currently have 2 in the sump and was thinking about moving 1 to the overflow.

 

[Rovert]

Been thinking along these lines myself. I figure the benefit of having a heater in the DT is that in the event of a temporary (under a day or two) power loss, in a pinch all you really need is some in-tank circulation from power heads and heat. That's easier for a portable generator to handle than a large return pump, though I'm not al electrician so I don't know what the draw of one versus the other would be.

 

[All_talk]

I have thought about this myself. From a safety/redundancy standpoint a heater in the tank makes sense, but there is no good place to hide one. Mine are in the sump for now. Following along for good ideas.

 

[bakbay]

I've seen setups where they place 1 in the sump and 1 in the overflow box. I currently have 2 in the sump and was thinking about moving 1 to the overflow.

My overflow box is too small to put a heater. Besides, if the return pump died, the water level in the DT & overflow box will be different/segregated, right? There will be no heat to the DT.

 

[TheBear78]

I'm not sure how well any heat from the potentially low water level in a non flowing overflow box would actually conduct through the plastic or glass walls? I imagine you would need it set quite hot to actually be useful.
Has anyone survived a pump loss with this set up?
@bakbay I assume that your skimmer ovrflow goes external? My first thought was how did a skimmer overflow lose water but mine would just flow back into the sump! How fast does the cup fill?
FWIW, from an aesthetic point of view I would never put a heater in the DT and don't see how it would effective in the overflow. However, as a holiday/vacation back up it wouldn't be a bad idea to temporarily have one in the DT.

 

[Dburr1014]

I've seen setups where they place 1 in the sump and 1 in the overflow box. I currently have 2 in the sump and was thinking about moving 1 to the overflow.

Not a good idea. The pump stops and the box empties, now you have a broken heater. If the pump restarts for any reason, now you have a really bad mess.

I have 1 in the sump and 1 in the tank. The cord rests against the overflow box and the heater is hidden behind a rock. Easily accessible to take out and clean but very hard to spot.

 

[bakbay]

I'm not sure how well any heat from the potentially low water level in a non flowing overflow box would actually conduct through the plastic or glass walls? I imagine you would need it set quite hot to actually be useful.
Has anyone survived a pump loss with this set up?
@bakbay I assume that your skimmer ovrflow goes external? My first thought was how did a skimmer overflow lose water but mine would just flow back into the sump! How fast does the cup fill?
FWIW, from an aesthetic point of view I would never put a heater in the DT and don't see how it would effective in the overflow. However, as a holiday/vacation back up it wouldn't be a bad idea to temporarily have one in the DT.

My skimmer overflowed and some water splashed outside the sump to another [dry] sump. Additionally, I was already low in the ATO given that's only good for about a week. It's an easy fix if I'm home but unfortunately, we were out on a family vaca for almost 8 days!

I've ordered the AutoAqua Smart Skimmer device to protect against overflow in the future. This will also allow me to do CO2 recirculation.

https://a.co/d/haBr7o3

 

[stoney7713]

Overflow chamber, it stays submerged, I don't have room in the sump and I don't want it in my DT.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I would switch things around a bit. If you put the temp probe in the first sump chamber, you will get an accurate measure of the DT temp. Putting the heater in the skimmer chamber (given your setup of drain > skimmer > return) will allow the heated water to be delivered back to the tank but keep the heater in a fuller chamber.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Been thinking along these lines myself. I figure the benefit of having a heater in the DT is that in the event of a temporary (under a day or two) power loss, in a pinch all you really need is some in-tank circulation from power heads and heat. That's easier for a portable generator to handle than a large return pump, though I'm not al electrician so I don't know what the draw of one versus the other would be.

Based on heater wattages and the manufacturer info for most return pumps, the draw for a heater is often much higher. The difference would be that the pump runs constantly but the heater turns off and on.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

So -- lessons learned to avoid a potential catastrophic failure in the future. I bought a second heater but should I put it in the DT tank for redundancy? I'm trying to have no wires inside the DT but I feel that this is the way to go.

Adding a second heater to the DT while you're on vacation seems to make sense, although the most likely cause of a heater not working is a power outage... Otherwise, there's no reason you would need to have a heater in the display full time.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Not a good idea. The pump stops and the box empties, now you have a broken heater. If the pump restarts for any reason, now you have a really bad mess.

I have 1 in the sump and 1 in the tank. The cord rests against the overflow box and the heater is hidden behind a rock. Easily accessible to take out and clean but very hard to spot.

Why does your overflow box empty when the pump stops? Mine only drains down to the lower drain pipe...

 

[Tcook]

I had them in the overflow boxes and now in the sump. I have a temp probe in both the tank and the sump.

 

[Dburr1014]

Why does your overflow box empty when the pump stops? Mine only drains down to the lower drain pipe...

Yes, but the heater would not be fully submerged.

 

[kados]

I keep two heaters in the sump. I don't think 76 degrees is dangerous though. I'm usually closer to 76 than 78 most of the time. 200g system in the a finished basement.

 

[bakbay]

I keep two heaters in the sump. I don't think 76 degrees is dangerous though. I'm usually closer to 76 than 78 most of the time. 200g system in the a finished basement.

76F was in the sump — the DT was likely colder than that? My room temp was around 68F at the time. Don’t acros go bad if colder than 72F?

 

[bakbay]

I would switch things around a bit. If you put the temp probe in the first sump chamber, you will get an accurate measure of the DT temp. Putting the heater in the skimmer chamber (given your setup of drain > skimmer > return) will allow the heated water to be delivered back to the tank but keep the heater in a fuller chamber.

Sure — it would help if I move the probe; however, it doesn’t matter where the heater is placed right? Bottom line was that my sump was empty and no water was delivered back to the DT.

 

[bakbay]

It appears that folks just put two heaters in the sump (although hindsight I should have done a poll). Anyway, I might do the same and perhaps pay/bribe one of my nephews to babysit the house & tank in the future? It will be way cheaper than crashing the tank!

 

[workhz]

When on vacation I dial the skimmer down for just aeration and don’t bother filling the cup. A week of no skimming isn’t going to kill anything especially if the fish are getting fed less.

On the ATO part, I have a backup 5 gallon container with a simple pump on a wifi outlet and a camera. If the ATO level gets low I just give it more water manually/remotely. Doesn’t take more than $50-$60 to set that up.

Seems more of a water issue than a heater issue. Now if your return pump went bad while on vacation you’re SOL. Not sure what you can do there other than the heater in the DT or backup pump and plumbing.