Where does my water go?

Brew12 · Aug 2, 2019

dduby said:
just confirmed that the water is not going into the overflow. I pulled the supply line from the ATO pump and turned off the return pump and got no water from the sump.

Whats the longest you've let the system run with your ATO sensor lowered and not getting a high level alarm?

SeaJay · Aug 2, 2019

mtfish said:
I has to be that the pump is pushing water faster than it can flow back to the sump. Since it does not look like the OP is using a DC pump where you can vary the voltage, they could put a valve on the return line to adjust flow and see if it makes a difference.

But why only pushing it up to the display faster right after we turn the pumps back on? I’ll play with my valves and see what I come up with. I’m certain that slightly closing the return line valves will stop it, but I’ll find out for sure when I get home from work.

SeaJay · Aug 2, 2019

dduby said:
The level is consistent until i shut everything off.

Same here.

dduby · Aug 2, 2019

Brew12 said:
Whats the longest you've let the system run with your ATO sensor lowered and not getting a high level alarm?

I'd say 12 hours or so. It will go from my nightly feeding until my morning feeding without alarming

Brew12 · Aug 2, 2019

dduby said:
I'd say 12 hours or so. It will go from my nightly feeding until my morning feeding without alarming

After you shut it down again at the lower level, does it get even lower the next time you shut it off?

Brew12 · Aug 2, 2019

I've only got one theory left.... one or both of your overflows is very slowly dropping over the course of the day. Some symptoms are being masked because evaporation is occurring at a very similar rate that the water in the overflow is dropping at.

MnFish1 · Aug 2, 2019

dduby said:
LOL, that makes two of us. My plan is to power everything down and watch the ATO and see if there is any back siphon. I'd agree that is shouldn't take 15 minutes to stabilize but it was just part of my troubleshooting process.

I dont know if you saw my post - but if the level in the sump is lower than when you started - then the level in the display tank has to be higher then when it started. It is either too much flow for your overflow - or there is a blockage somewhere in your overflow. One way to help fix this is to lower your feeding time. i.e. if the problem is the overflow - it will also be slow draining into the sump - thus won't be as much of a problem when you restart - because the level in your tank will end up higher.

BTW - a picture of your sump before feeding time, during feeding time and after feeding time might be helpful - as well as a picture of your tank (display) before and during and after feeding.

WVNed · Aug 2, 2019

You may get an air bubble in your drain that takes longer to clear and the drain runs slightly slower until it does.
A 1/4 inch more water in the DT can be 4 inches in the return section of the sump.

dduby · Aug 2, 2019

MnFish1 said:
I dont know if you saw my post - but if the level in the sump is lower than when you started - then the level in the display tank has to be higher then when it started. It is either too much flow for your overflow - or there is a blockage somewhere in your overflow. One way to help fix this is to lower your feeding time. i.e. if the problem is the overflow - it will also be slow draining into the sump - thus won't be as much of a problem when you restart - because the level in your tank will end up higher.

BTW - a picture of your sump before feeding time, during feeding time and after feeding time might be helpful - as well as a picture of your tank (display) before and during and after feeding.

I did see your post and i would agree, the water is somewhere. What is considered slow draining? When I power down, the overflows empty to the level of the siphon drain in a matter of seconds. My overflows will most certainly out drain what my return is supplying. The gate valves on the full siphon drains are more closed than open. If i were to fully open the valves i doubt it would have enough in the overflow to create a siphon. Or perhaps I am mistaken.

Shluffer · Aug 2, 2019

It's not the speed of the supply to the DT that changes. It's the speed of the return to the sump. A siphon pulls more water than without a siphon.

dduby · Aug 2, 2019

Shluffer said:
It's not the speed of the supply to the DT that changes. It's the speed of the return to the sump. A siphon pulls more water than without a siphon.

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Robert_ellis · Aug 2, 2019

WVNed said:
You may get an air bubble in your drain that takes longer to clear and the drain runs slightly slower until it does.
A 1/4 inch more water in the DT can be 4 inches in the return section of the sump.

This is exactly your problem. I have the same issue in my freshwater tank. Once the water in your tank gets enough pressure behind it which is the 4" drop in your return, it forces the bubble out or has enough flow to make the bubble break up until it's gone.

Shluffer · Aug 2, 2019

My old setup had an overflow in the tank connected to a basement sump. The return line, at some point had a slight rise trapping a bubble. When the tank was restarted, the water drained, but at a slower rate. Eventually enough water pressure was behind the siphon too push out the bubble, and the water drained to the sump faster. Drove me crazy because I couldn't figure out how to get the drain quite. I reran the line without the rise and my drain speed issue went away.

mtfish · Aug 2, 2019

We need pictures! One more question. How far below water level of the sump is the return pipe? If it is too far down it could be harder to get rid of an air bubble and messing with your siphon when restarting.

MnFish1 · Aug 3, 2019

dduby said:
I am actually I'm running a VarioS-6 pump. But after time if my return was out-flowing my drains wouldn't i start taking more water into the emergency drains, as well as suck the return chamber dry. The level is consistent until i shut everything off.

Yes - assuming they are also not having a problem. Also - when this happens to me - it is when the weir on the overflow is plugged.

dduby · Aug 14, 2019

A bit of an update, I think i have gotten this sorted out. When i first set up the plumbing i did not glue the drain lines into the bulkheads in my sump, i thought i would leave them loose to make disassembly/cleaning easier. The full siphon lines would suck air at the sump bulkheads and i believe this contributed to the water level fluctuation and at the very least it made the water level in the overflow change throughout the day. I sealed up the joints at the sump and am now able to dial in the overflow water level and it stays there.

Also, i have gotten more diligent on cleaning out my filter socks. The socks would balloon out like they were restricting flow. I think the variation of flow in my return lines in addition to filter socks slowing down the return rate were what was causing the water level to drop.

MnFish1 · Aug 14, 2019

dduby said:
A bit of an update, I think i have gotten this sorted out. When i first set up the plumbing i did not glue the drain lines into the bulkheads in my sump, i thought i would leave them loose to make disassembly/cleaning easier. The full siphon lines would suck air at the sump bulkheads and i believe this contributed to the water level fluctuation and at the very least it made the water level in the overflow change throughout the day. I sealed up the joints at the sump and am now able to dial in the overflow water level and it stays there.

Also, i have gotten more diligent on cleaning out my filter socks. The socks would balloon out like they were restricting flow. I think the variation of flow in my return lines in addition to filter socks slowing down the return rate were what was causing the water level to drop.

BUT WHERE DID THE WATER GO LOL

. And BTW - I am not sure you need to glue them? I'm glad though that you figured it out.