Which Lighting?

[uclaray]

Hey all, I'm setting up a 150 gal sps dominate mixed reef tank, 72"x24"x24". What lights have you had success with, leds? t5/led hybrid? just t5s?. There are some beautiful lights out there, but a couple of thousand dollars to light a tank? I like the ap700 or maybe the aquatic life t5/led hybrid, but pretty pricey. Viparspectra led? Dsuny led? or other BB? Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Jeepguy242]

im an old school guy.... 20k radium 250 watt MH

i supplement with 2 reef bright actinic 48" strips over a 125

 

[Bpb]

I think about the cheapest you could possibly do for full sps dominant 180 gallon would be 6 of the viparspectra units which will run you about $700 total. Or another option would
Be a new or used ati sunpower 8x80 watt unit which would run close to the same price

 

[jda]

Success is in the eye of the beholder, but you need to know what you wish to behold before you can evaluate. There are a lot of people that claim a lot of success that other's do not agree with.

On the sliding scale below, where do you see yourself:

Pure Performance <========> Playability/Thunderstorms

If you are on the left, then get a Metal Halide or T5 setup. If you are strongly on the right, then get some LEDs, but get some with lots of control - the cheaper units do not have a lot of ramping and color changing features. Somewhere in the middle are some hybrid models that start with MH/T5s further to the left and T5/LED farther to the right... but remember that if you want to jack with the lights a lot, then you will need to order nice LEDs of at least middle grade/cost.

Do not believe what anybody tells you, there are tradeoffs on either end - flexibility on the left and performance on the right.

There is no "best of both worlds." Figure out what you want and invest in it. Being on the fence and taking two techs just to do it is like having two quarterbacks - it means that you do not have one. It ends up being the worst of both worlds, but most people cannot see this (and scoff at me for mentioning it).

I am a pure performance guy over my acropora tank (no easier SPS like MBP&S) and I use MH alone - no T5s since I would rather use the wattage to run another MH bulb.

 

[[Cameron]]

If I had a canopy tank today, I would run T5s on the outer edges and take a look at Kessils every 2' or similar in the middle. Going without a canopy, I would probably go all LED with two Orphek V4s.

On a budget, I would ditch LED altogether and go T5 across the board. LEDs just aren't there yet in terms of coverage without getting spendy.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

SBreeflight. Worth a look. Basics to WiFi. 16in to 30 in.
A standard 15in B.B. will cover about an 18x18 with stock lenses at 12in.

About 600 par at 12in. You can pull the lenses for more spread , i haven’t played with the spread on it without lenses. Loses about 20% intensity, but you can move them closer.

 

[uclaray]

Thanks all for your input

 

[Daniel Waters]

With LEDs, I find shadowing becomes an issue regardless of how many units you use. It's just the nature of single point light sources. When acros grow out, they can begin to shade themselves and can create issues when relying on just LEds. Thus, I think T5s as the main source of light or T5s with some LED supplementation is a good strategy. I can't speak to metal halides, but I suspect the large reflectors most units use would provide the same diffuse light source like a T5 bulb would.

 

[A. grandis]

I would use either an ATI Sunpower 60" with 8 bulbs or a Giesemann Spectra with 2 X 250W halides and the 4 T5s.
With the Spectra you can use only t5s or only halides for part of the day. One complements the other.
Halides and T5s are beautiful! The best growth I've ever had was with halides!!
I have all T5 systems running now and love 'em as well. I just think for the SPS would be great to have both.
Can't go wrong with halides/T5s!
If your budget is short just get the Sunpower. It's going to work like a charm for 24" deep.
You're gonna to have a great tank with either one!
Grandis.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

With LEDs, I find shadowing becomes an issue regardless of how many units you use. It's just the nature of single point light sources. When acros grow out, they can begin to shade themselves and can create issues when relying on just LEds. Thus, I think T5s as the main source of light or T5s with some LED supplementation is a good strategy. I can't speak to metal halides, but I suspect the large reflectors most units use would provide the same diffuse light source like a T5 bulb would.

I don’t have any shading with leds.
No more than with my t5 or halide.
Actually the halide was a smaller unit sonjad a bit more shading.

 

[FarmerTy]

I don’t have any shading with leds.
No more than with my t5 or halide.
Actually the halide was a smaller unit sonjad a bit more shading.

I get shading big time with SPS mini colonies and larger using LEDs. I see it all the time since my frag tank is LED only and my display is T5. Once frags graduate from my frag tank, I put them in the display and can easily see where the shading has occurred via LED lighting. A couple weeks into the T5s and I can already see the darker areas on the colony start to color up. Just my experience though, maybe unique circumstances in my system cause it.

 

[FarmerTy]

FWIW, I've run PC lighting, VHOs, 250 watt halides, 400 watt halides, LED, LED/T5 hybrid, and now ATI T5 with actinic bar. Been around the block with lighting over the 14 years. [emoji23]

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I get shading big time with SPS mini colonies and larger using LEDs. I see it all the time since my frag tank is LED only and my display is T5. Once frags graduate from my frag tank, I put them in the display and can easily see where the shading has occurred via LED lighting. A couple weeks into the T5s and I can already see the darker areas on the colony start to color up. Just my experience though, maybe unique circumstances in my system cause it.

I don’t like pucks. You need a lot of them to create a larger light source.
Multi emitters IMO , are the way to go.
Same basic difference between one light on in the living room and ten of them. More like bouncing around and coming from different directions.
IMO , it’s not Led , it’s what led and how it’s used.

I regularly encourage folks to not choose two kessil 360 but use four 16o instead, for example, or pull some or all the lenses in BBs to reduce directionality of the beam.

Similarly , t5 tubes that are too small for a tank would cause some shading even though the par would be fine.

I chose 3 16in B.B. (formerly 2 12in Ai sol) for a 48 tank. Rather than two 3in 360s, and a 16bb on my 20x18 cube rather than one 360.
A Radion on that tank would only be two 3in sources.
I did try one halide pendant on that tank about the same size as the B.B. but the beam was tight and only made about a six in hot spot at the top of the tank. Big time shading.

Shading is about the size of the source and the angles Light can come in at over an object.
Simple soloution , larger source or multiple sources.

 

[FarmerTy]

I don’t like pucks. You need a lot of them to create a larger light source.
Multi emitters IMO , are the way to go.
Same basic difference between one light on in the living room and ten of them. More like bouncing around and coming from different directions.
IMO , it’s not Led , it’s what led and how it’s used.

I regularly encourage folks to not choose two kessil 360 but use four 16o instead, for example, or pull some or all the lenses in BBs to reduce directionality of the beam.

Similarly , t5 tubes that are too small for a tank would cause some shading even though the par would be fine.

I chose 3 16in B.B. (formerly 2 12in Ai sol) for a 48 tank. Rather than two 3in 360s, and a 16bb on my 20x18 cube rather than one 360.
A Radion on that tank would only be two 3in sources.
I did try one halide pendant on that tank about the same size as the B.B. but the beam was tight and only made about a six in hot spot at the top of the tank. Big time shading.

Shading is about the size of the source and the angles Light can come in at over an object.
Simple soloution , larger source or multiple sources.

I 100% agree with you and highly respect your opinion on the forum. That's why I chose not to go with 4 Radions versus the ATI T5 setup. Even with the new diffuser released, its still a single point source, the diffuser just blends it better but the source is still coming from one puck, or I should say 2 pucks.

I am using the Ocean Revive fixtures on the frag tank. Dispersion is great regarding LED placement, very similar to the SBreef leds you are using.

Here's a real world example of a coral with shadowing. That coral is under my Ocean Revive LEDs. One picture is as is from above. The 2nd is the coral turned on its side. 3rd is of the coral with just 45 degree rotation. When I place a coral like this under my T5s, usually within several weeks to a month, the dark areas get lighter and some start coloring up. Also attached is a picture of the LEDs directly above the coral itself without moving the camera.

At the end of the day, the spread is much better with these multipoint LED fixtures versus pucks but I still think the T5s with a reflector have it beat. My 8-bulb T5 has technically 8 different point sources from which they hit the reflector and can get that much more angles of spread for the light to hit the coral. Not to mention the entirety of the 60" bulb is a light source whereas on my Ocean Revives, its just each individual diode. From a pure physics point-of-view, more angles to hit the corals below was my only point.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I 100% agree with you and highly respect your opinion on the forum. That's why I chose not to go with 4 Radions versus the ATI T5 setup. Even with the new diffuser released, its still a single point source, the diffuser just blends it better but the source is still coming from one puck, or I should say 2 pucks.

I am using the Ocean Revive fixtures on the frag tank. Dispersion is great regarding LED placement, very similar to the SBreef leds you are using.

Here's a real world example of a coral with shadowing. That coral is under my Ocean Revive LEDs. One picture is as is from above. The 2nd is the coral turned on its side. 3rd is of the coral with just 45 degree rotation. When I place a coral like this under my T5s, usually within several weeks to a month, the dark areas get lighter and some start coloring up. Also attached is a picture of the LEDs directly above the coral itself without moving the camera.

At the end of the day, the spread is much better with these multipoint LED fixtures versus pucks but I still think the T5s with a reflector have it beat. My 8-bulb T5 has technically 8 different point sources from which they hit the reflector and can get that much more angles of spread for the light to hit the coral. Not to mention the entirety of the 60" bulb is a light source whereas on my Ocean Revives, its just each individual diode. From a pure physics point-of-view, more angles to hit the corals below was my only point.

Agreed.

Nice frag.

 

[FarmerTy]

Agreed.

Nice frag.

Thanks, its about to "graduate" from the frag tank! I love anything of the a. microclados world.

 

[jda]

There is still a lot more shadowing with panel-type fixtures than there are with T5 or MH. I do agree that the majority of folks who do not have issues probably do not have colonies yet. Anybody who has them knows that colonies are a totally different type of animal than frags and large frags (what some call colonies).

There is a lot of nuance here, but let's don't get started with that... If everybody wanted all of the nuance, then world, and certainly this hobby, would be a different place. It is way easier to just buy what is cool and know all that you need to know with a one-sentence post somewhere. ...it is usually something like "MH all get hot" "MH are best for pure performance" "Light bulb changes are a pain" "LED are proven to grow coral" "X is the best that I have ever had" and the like.

Ty - when you put that frag in your display, you might mount it so that it an be removed and take another photo in a month, and then again at two months. There are a lot of LED users that believe that this is a myth.

 

[FarmerTy]

There is still a lot more shadowing with panel-type fixtures than there are with T5 or MH. I do agree that the majority of folks who do not have issues probably do not have colonies yet. Anybody who has them knows that colonies are a totally different type of animal than frags and large frags (what some call colonies).

There is a lot of nuance here, but let's don't get started with that... If everybody wanted all of the nuance, then world, and certainly this hobby, would be a different place. It is way easier to just buy what is cool and know all that you need to know with a one-sentence post somewhere. ...it is usually something like "MH all get hot" "MH are best for pure performance" "Light bulb changes are a pain" "LED are proven to grow coral" "X is the best that I have ever had" and the like.

Ty - when you put that frag in your display, you might mount it so that it an be removed and take another photo in a month, and then again at two months. There are a lot of LED users that believe that this is a myth.

That's a good call. Guess the frag will graduate sooner in the name of science! [emoji41]

 

[mtraylor]

Nice write up FarmerTy. Now I can actually see what all the hubbub is about on shading. That shows the long term effects.
Great job.

I thought I would chime in on the light decisions. First and far most. IMO. Dump your money into your lights,skimmer, and sump. This is something that you don't want to regret and or have to change in the long run down the road. I think outside the budget, these are a couple things you want to consider.

****Your first decision has been made. SPS dominant reef, so you will need good lighting****

1. Do you mind changing bulbs every 9 to 12 months?
-Most people do not include bulb replacement into their budget. Keep in mind you need to stay on top of that.
2. Do you want pendant style light or cabinet enclosed?
-Basically astatically how do you want your aquarium to look. That is important since you look at it everyday.
3. Is power consumption any factor?

Once you figure all those out. Then you can make your decision.
1. MH/T5 combo is a real nice setup. IF you stick with 250watt MH's with good ventilation. Then you don't have to worry about chiller and all that stuff.
2. MH or T5 alone is also a good setup.
3. LED's are nice setup for SPS as well.

So how do you make a decision. IMO. I prefer LED's over them all. I have control over the spectrum and I conserve energy and they give off less heat than any other light I have had, and there is no maintenance. Now if you go the LED route, then you will need to open your wallet to get a nice fixture. I have GHL Mitras and I have none of the issues that people complain about. I do not have any shading issues, I don't have any issue's with burning corals and having to adjust my light every time I get a coral, etc. etc. etc. I have 4 pendants over my 255 and really enjoy them. The dusk to dawn features and cloud overlay throughout the day is just lovely. Brings your aquarium to live and makes the tank feel more natural IMO. The corals and fish seem to love it. Not to mention I have just lately dialed my new pendants in to 20k to 16K of light throughout the day and I have finally gotten the mix of my old MH setup. I'm amazed with the colors I'm getting now. I used to have a couple corals that wouldn't color up for me and that is now in the past.

That being said. If you don't want to spend the time to get a really nice LED fixture dialed in. Then I would go MH/T5/LED setup, if you can still find them. There is also the very nice MH/LED pendants. That would be my first grab if still wanted to run MH's. If you don't like the look of those, then a nice all t5 fixture is always a nice a clean look.

All of the different types of lighting will work for you as long as your husbandry habits in maintaining the aquarium are up to par. Make the decision based on what you think will suite your needs and husbandry habits the best. Not to mention budget.

 

[uclaray]

Thanks again for all the help. Right now I think I'm leaning toward either the aquatic life t5/led hybrid or the sbreeflight sbox pro.