White out after adding limewater - Action?

[rpkneumann]

I added Kaltwasser (Seachen) after my routine waterchange. Water went cloudy pretty quick.
is this calcium carbonate?
i did not dose slowly. Added 200 ml to a 32 gallon tank.
Values are now
PH up to 8.4 from 7.9
Alkalinity 9 dKH. Down from 11.4 DKH

Do I need todo anything to the water or just wait until the dust settled?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Should be added very slowly and to the sump rather than direct to tank which can cause a spike. Easier to add than to remove.
What you see is a normal effect from dropping such into the tank directly. I do hope youre within range and have nbot dosed too much
Might as well wait at least 12 hours to test as you will only get false readings with solution susoended in tank

 

[splitting_lanes]

I’d suggest you don’t do that again. The shock of the change is hard on critters.

I would just leave it, it will settle down

 

[stanlalee]

It's calcium hydroxide aka limewater (adds calcium and alkalinity, raises pH). Your pH went up 0.5 which is a clear indicator you dosed way too much. 200ml really doesn't tell us much because we don't know what powder to water concentration you mixed the kalk to. Usually it is dosed via using in an auto top off or a slow drip/dosing pump.

 

[rpkneumann]

It’s a biocube.
I added it to the pump chamber about 24 hours ago.
Just measured alk and ph to see what happened.
Yes definitely will not do it again.
Good news is that nothing bounced out of value so far.

The only one reacting is my Kenya tree. He is pretty closed right now. Looks pretty sad.
The toadstool, Xenia , daisies , sugarcane and feather dusters show no change.
Critters seem ok. My neon goby zoomed around chasing some of the fallout flakes, but he has calmed now.
I’ll wait and see.....

 

[rpkneumann]

It's calcium hydroxide aka limewater (adds calcium and alkalinity, raises pH). Your pH went up 0.5 which is a clear indicator you dosed way too much. 200ml really doesn't tell us much because we don't know what powder to water concentration you mixed the kalk to. Usually it is dosed via using in an auto top off or a slow drip/dosing pump.

Mixed 1 gallon of rodi water 2 teaspoons Saechem Kaltwasser powder. Looks pretty saturated. No powder settling. Ph measure of the lime water is 12.
I hardly loose any water in my biocube. So I guess I will need to look into a dosing pump.
Any suggestions for that?

 

[Brett S]

I hardly loose any water in my biocube. So I guess I will need to look into a dosing pump.
Any suggestions for that?

A dosing pump won’t help if you’re adding more than you are evaporating.

Kalkwasser is basically freshwater with a high calcium and alkalinity content. If you use a dosing pump to add it to your tank at a faster rate then your water is evaporating then the water level in your tank will continue to rise and your salinity will continue to fall over time.

A dosing pump is simply a way to add a more measured dose spread out over more time than the short blasts that you might get by using it with an auto top off.

Edited to add that needing to add more kalk than the water that is evaporating is one common reason that people switch away from kalk to another method to increase calcium and alkalinity.

 

[splitting_lanes]

I use a litermeter to dose kalk. i dose 2/3 tsp to one gal water (1/3 strength) 650ml/day. My tank evaporates about a liter a day, so the rest is made up via the ato.

 

[Cory]

It will be okay. Here's what randy says to do:

In such cases of acute overdose, here is my advice:

1. If the pH is 8.5 or lower (as it often is since a precipitation event itself reduces pH even if it was much higher to start with), there is little that can or needs to be done. Just wait a few days for the white calcium carbonate to slowly disappear. A water change is not necessary, although once the water is clear, testing calcium and especially alkalinity is in order (don’t bother to test the cloudy water as it will give false high readings as these tests detect solids even though they are not truly in solution). Few aquarists suffer the loss of organisms from such events. I’ve had several such events without any apparent losses.

2. If the pH is above 8.5, some action to reduce the pH is warranted. The higher it is, the faster and greater the needed action. Since such events may happen when few tools are available to solve them (e.g., New Year's morning when few stores are open), I’ll provide a number of options, although some are better than others. In all cases, reduce the pH only to 8.5 to avoid overshooting.

The best option is to add carbon dioxide, either by bubbling the gas directly, or by adding soda water/seltzer (or blowing into a skimmer inlet if it is your only option). At least in the normal aquarium pH range, a teaspoon of soda water per gallon of tank water will lower pH by a couple of tenths of a pH unit. Overshooting with carbon dioxide, while undesirable, is less of a concern than is overshooting with any other option.

A second option is to add vinegar. Be especially careful to not overshoot pH 8.5 or so, because when bacteria begin to metabolize the acetate, the resulting CO2 will further lower the pH, and oxygen will be consumed (equation (14)). For this reason, it is especially important to maintain aeration when using vinegar in such a fashion. I’ve added vinegar to my aquarium in similar situations without difficulty, although the pH was only marginally high and I did not need to add much.

A third rung of options involves adding a mineral acid such as muriatic acid (HCl or hydrochloric acid) or sulfuric acid. I’ve added HCl to my aquarium in similar situations without difficulty. When performing such a mineral acid treatment, be very careful not to overshoot, and to monitor the pH during any acid additions. I would intervene in this fashion only if I could monitor the pH in real time, and could add the acid to a high flow area far from any organism. Diluting the acid in water (say, 20:1 or 100:1) prior to adding it to the tank is highly recommended for the safety of both the aquarist and the tank’s inhabitants (diluting vinegar, which is already dilute, isn’t necessary). One other drawback to adding a mineral acid is that it reduces the alkalinity. In such a case, the result may be elevated calcium and reduced alkalinity that will require significant correction.

 

[rpkneumann]

It will be okay. Here's what randy says to do:

In such cases of acute overdose, here is my advice:

1. If the pH is 8.5 or lower (as it often is since a precipitation event itself reduces pH even if it was much higher to start with), there is little that can or needs to be done. Just wait a few days for the white calcium carbonate to slowly disappear. A water change is not necessary, although once the water is clear, testing calcium and especially alkalinity is in order (don’t bother to test the cloudy water as it will give false high readings as these tests detect solids even though they are not truly in solution). Few aquarists suffer the loss of organisms from such events. I’ve had several such events without any apparent losses.

2. If the pH is above 8.5, some action to reduce the pH is warranted. The higher it is, the faster and greater the needed action. Since such events may happen when few tools are available to solve them (e.g., New Year's morning when few stores are open), I’ll provide a number of options, although some are better than others. In all cases, reduce the pH only to 8.5 to avoid overshooting.

The best option is to add carbon dioxide, either by bubbling the gas directly, or by adding soda water/seltzer (or blowing into a skimmer inlet if it is your only option). At least in the normal aquarium pH range, a teaspoon of soda water per gallon of tank water will lower pH by a couple of tenths of a pH unit. Overshooting with carbon dioxide, while undesirable, is less of a concern than is overshooting with any other option.

A second option is to add vinegar. Be especially careful to not overshoot pH 8.5 or so, because when bacteria begin to metabolize the acetate, the resulting CO2 will further lower the pH, and oxygen will be consumed (equation (14)). For this reason, it is especially important to maintain aeration when using vinegar in such a fashion. I’ve added vinegar to my aquarium in similar situations without difficulty, although the pH was only marginally high and I did not need to add much.

A third rung of options involves adding a mineral acid such as muriatic acid (HCl or hydrochloric acid) or sulfuric acid. I’ve added HCl to my aquarium in similar situations without difficulty. When performing such a mineral acid treatment, be very careful not to overshoot, and to monitor the pH during any acid additions. I would intervene in this fashion only if I could monitor the pH in real time, and could add the acid to a high flow area far from any organism. Diluting the acid in water (say, 20:1 or 100:1) prior to adding it to the tank is highly recommended for the safety of both the aquarist and the tank’s inhabitants (diluting vinegar, which is already dilute, isn’t necessary). One other drawback to adding a mineral acid is that it reduces the alkalinity. In such a case, the result may be elevated calcium and reduced alkalinity that will require significant correction.

Cory,
Thank you for all the great explanations.
My tank is about 5 months old.
I usually immediately get the reply.... wait until it's at least 8 months old to start experimenting .....
I'm new to saltwater. I had freshwater tanks all my life before until about 5 years ago.
I do have fun with this tank and learning as I'm going.

I have read Randy Holme's publishings and they made a lot of sense to me.
Low pH: Causes and Cures : Randy Holmes Low pH Article
One of his charts talks about the interaction of alkalinity, pH and CO2. If I plot my values in there I draw the conclusion that I have way to much CO2 in the tank.
So i ventured out trying to fix a " high alkalinity with low ph problem" even though my tank members didn't seem to mind the values at all.
My has bounced a bit.I measure weekly sometimes twice a week and it hovers around 8.4 to 11 dKH .
My PH values had been a steady 8.3/8.4 until a month and a half ago when it started trending down weekly from 8.4, 8,0, 7,9, 7.8, 7.7 to 7.4 that's when i decided to use limewater.

This was also the point where i lost a seemingly thriving and growing green montipora to change colors to brown and now white.

Now its day 2 after water change and the introduction of lime water.
The cloudiness is hardly noticeable. The plastic parts are covered in white dust. Wintertime

Since the biocube tank has a tight lid it prevents it from evaporating more than 1/1/2 to 2 cups per week.
I therefore had not invested in a top off system.
I sometimes I open the lid and aerate . Porch door is next to the tank, open all day long (weather permitting in Texas) but see no change in PH or Alkalinity.

I tried using an aeration stone for a week in chamber 1.
Besides it overflowing my tank when i started with to much airflow the results were the same.
PH went a up whopping 0.1 points up from 7.4 to 7.5 . I know that's a lot on the logarithmic scale but I somehow expected more.

Now after the limewater experiment being 2 days ago:
I measured and I'm back where I started but, except PH looks a little better.

PH 7.88 (2-decimal probe)
Alk. 11.5 dKH (Salifert pro test) !!
Sal 34.9 (using Hanna probe)
A calcium tester is on my Xmas wishlist.

Seems the cloudy water last night gave me a wrong reading for Alkalinity (9 dKH).
The biological values didn't change at all during this phase.

So here I am not quite sure what to do next, if anything at all ....
I do not want to keep stressing my inhabitants with changing parameters all the time.

BTW my kenya tree has recovered.
And I have a gallon of highly saturated lime water left over.

Any suggestions ...?

 

[Cory]

Cory,
Thank you for all the great explanations.
My tank is about 5 months old.
I usually immediately get the reply.... wait until it's at least 8 months old to start experimenting .....
I'm new to saltwater. I had freshwater tanks all my life before until about 5 years ago.
I do have fun with this tank and learning as I'm going.

I have read Randy Holme's publishings and they made a lot of sense to me.
Low pH: Causes and Cures : Randy Holmes Low pH Article
One of his charts talks about the interaction of alkalinity, pH and CO2. If I plot my values in there I draw the conclusion that I have way to much CO2 in the tank.
So i ventured out trying to fix a " high alkalinity with low ph problem" even though my tank members didn't seem to mind the values at all.
My has bounced a bit.I measure weekly sometimes twice a week and it hovers around 8.4 to 11 dKH .
My PH values had been a steady 8.3/8.4 until a month and a half ago when it started trending down weekly from 8.4, 8,0, 7,9, 7.8, 7.7 to 7.4 that's when i decided to use limewater.

This was also the point where i lost a seemingly thriving and growing green montipora to change colors to brown and now white.

Now its day 2 after water change and the introduction of lime water.
The cloudiness is hardly noticeable. The plastic parts are covered in white dust. Wintertime

Since the biocube tank has a tight lid it prevents it from evaporating more than 1/1/2 to 2 cups per week.
I therefore had not invested in a top off system.
I sometimes I open the lid and aerate . Porch door is next to the tank, open all day long (weather permitting in Texas) but see no change in PH or Alkalinity.

I tried using an aeration stone for a week in chamber 1.
Besides it overflowing my tank when i started with to much airflow the results were the same.
PH went a up whopping 0.1 points up from 7.4 to 7.5 . I know that's a lot on the logarithmic scale but I somehow expected more.

Now after the limewater experiment being 2 days ago:
I measured and I'm back where I started but, except PH looks a little better.

PH 7.88 (2-decimal probe)
Alk. 11.5 dKH (Salifert pro test) !!
Sal 34.9 (using Hanna probe)
A calcium tester is on my Xmas wishlist.

Seems the cloudy water last night gave me a wrong reading for Alkalinity (9 dKH).
The biological values didn't change at all during this phase.

So here I am not quite sure what to do next, if anything at all ....
I do not want to keep stressing my inhabitants with changing parameters all the time.

BTW my kenya tree has recovered.
And I have a gallon of highly saturated lime water left over.

Any suggestions ...?

Hmm that is confusing. What id do here is take some tank water in a cup and take it outside to measure ph. Areate it outside for an hour. Test ph. If it doesnt rise to ph 8.1 or higher, your ph test isnt working with an alkalinity of 11dkh.

 

[rpkneumann]

Cory
here are the results of this test ....

Before:
Alk 11.4
pH before aeration in container: 7.94
After (2 Hours):
Alk 10.5
ph after 2 hours of aeration: 8.4

My observations:
When i put the airstone into my tank before I did not run it at full power in chamber one because of the bubbles making it overflow.
I will put the airstone back in the tank but this time in chamber 2 (taking out my dismal trial of a sump. The cheato didn't grow even with extra light, it simply disintegrated over time)
Will post the measurements tomorrow.
If it works, would i run aeration 24/7?

 

[Cory]

Cory
here are the results of this test ....

Before:
Alk 11.4
pH before aeration in container: 7.94
After (2 Hours):
Alk 10.5
ph after 2 hours of aeration: 8.4

My observations:
When i put the airstone into my tank before I did not run it at full power in chamber one because of the bubbles making it overflow.
I will put the airstone back in the tank but this time in chamber 2 (taking out my dismal trial of a sump. The cheato didn't grow even with extra light, it simply disintegrated over time)
Will post the measurements tomorrow.
If it works, would i run aeration 24/7?

This is a classic case of high indoor co2. Youll need to aerrate the tank and house with outside air to get ph up. But 7.94 isnt too bad imo.

 

[rpkneumann]

Ok. I’ll post the results tomorrow

 

[rpkneumann]

Ok. I’ll post the results tomorrow

Aerated in chamber 2 for about 5 hours PH rose to pH 8.1 by 9 pm
This morning pH is 7.94 and stayed like this until now 4:30 pm

I did measure my new saltwater batch ( Marine Pro ) after a day: pH is 8.4
I'm surprised that 2 people in a house would create such excess of CO2 in a wide open not really well insulated house.

Questions:
1. should i continue to aerate the tank every day for a few hours?
2. if so, how long?
3. wouldn't i create lots of swings in pH?
4. What makes the pH drop so drastically from the orignal mix (8.4) to about 7.9 when added to the tank?
(nearly 30% water change)
Am I missing something?

 

[Cory]

Aerated in chamber 2 for about 5 hours PH rose to pH 8.1 by 9 pm
This morning pH is 7.94 and stayed like this until now 4:30 pm

I did measure my new saltwater batch ( Marine Pro ) after a day: pH is 8.4
I'm surprised that 2 people in a house would create such excess of CO2 in a wide open not really well insulated house.

Questions:
1. should i continue to aerate the tank every day for a few hours?
2. if so, how long?
3. wouldn't i create lots of swings in pH?
4. What makes the pH drop so drastically from the orignal mix (8.4) to about 7.9 when added to the tank?
(nearly 30% water change)
Am I missing something?

Its not unusual for 2 people to produce enough co2 in a closed home to lower ph that much. You can get a whole home air system to help with this. Are you using a skimmer? You can try running the air intake outside to bring in fresh air if wanted. Sometimes its enough, most times people add co2 remove media to the skikmer intake.