white spots on toby puffers eyes

[hannahrlynch]

hi everyone new member here, just wondering what’s wrong with my black saddled toby puffer. there’s white stuff on his eyes but no where else & he is flashing. other than that he’s swimming & eating fine & he can still see. any help, tips or suggestions would be amazing. thank you!!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

With cloudy eyes like that, there can be a number of causes, but in looking at the pictures, the fluke Neobenedenia comes to mind. They are found all over the fish, but really only are visible on the fish’s eyes.
Other causes for cloudy eyes can be injuries and/or bacterial infections. Protozoans can case cloudy eyes, but typically have additional symptoms.
You could do a 5 minute freshwater dip - that will knock off some of the flukes and you can then see them in the bottom of the dip container. Once diagnosed, you’ll need to treat the whole tank. Let me know if you want info as to how to do a dip.....
Jay

 

[hannahrlynch]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

With cloudy eyes like that, there can be a number of causes, but in looking at the pictures, the fluke Neobenedenia comes to mind. They are found all over the fish, but really only are visible on the fish’s eyes.
Other causes for cloudy eyes can be injuries and/or bacterial infections. Protozoans can case cloudy eyes, but typically have additional symptoms.
You could do a 5 minute freshwater dip - that will knock off some of the flukes and you can then see them in the bottom of the dip container. Once diagnosed, you’ll need to treat the whole tank. Let me know if you want info as to how to do a dip.....
Jay

yes could i have more info on how/what water to use to do the dip. also i have two bta so i can’t really treat my whole tank can i ?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

You can likely dose your tank safely with prazipro, but first you should confirm the flukes: take a gallon of dechlorinated freshwater the same temperature as the tank and put it in a dark plastic container. Add an air stone if you can. Catch the puffer in a net and don’t get any algae, sand or gravel in the net. Put the puffer in the freshwater for 5 minutes. Cover it so it can’t jump out. After 5 minutes, return the puffer to the tank and let the water in the bucket settle out. If you see little gray things that look like fish scales or tiny seeds on the bottom, those are Neobenedenia flukes and you’ll need to treat 3x with prazipro, each a week apart. You’ll need to aerate your tank well during the treatment.
Jay

 

[hannahrlynch]

You can likely dose your tank safely with prazipro, but first you should confirm the flukes: take a gallon of dechlorinated freshwater the same temperature as the tank and put it in a dark plastic container. Add an air stone if you can. Catch the puffer in a net and don’t get any algae, sand or gravel in the net. Put the puffer in the freshwater for 5 minutes. Cover it so it can’t jump out. After 5 minutes, return the puffer to the tank and let the water in the bucket settle out. If you see little gray things that look like fish scales or tiny seeds on the bottom, those are Neobenedenia flukes and you’ll need to treat 3x with prazipro, each a week apart. You’ll need to aerate your tank well during the treatment.
Jay

can i use tap water & add prime dechlorinator or should i use RODI water? i have a 24 gal with 266gph. i’m not sure if that’s enough during the treatments? sorry i’m pretty new to all of this & still learning. also 5 minutes sounds like a long time & you know your stuff but he’ll be okay right? also if i do the treatment & i don’t see any of those things, then do you have any other ideas? thank you so much for all of this.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Tap and prime is fine for the dip. If its not flukes then it may be bacterial but follow-up with Jay on next steps.

 

[hannahrlynch]

Tap and prime is fine for the dip. If its not flukes then it may be bacterial but follow-up with Jay on next steps.

do you think my 266 gph is okay for in between treatments? i want to do it asap but i don’t have an extra heater can i just attempt my best at using hot/cold tap water or does it have to be perfect? also should i feed him at all today if i do the treatment today? i understand you may not know exactly but any info would be awesome! & thank you

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

do you think my 266 gph is okay for in between treatments? i want to do it asap but i don’t have an extra heater can i just attempt my best at using hot/cold tap water or does it have to be perfect? also should i feed him at all today if i do the treatment today? i understand you may not know exactly but any info would be awesome! & thank you

A little confused by the 266 gph bit... Hot/cold water is fine if you can test it with a thermometer, temperature shouldn't drop significantly in the 5 minutes it takes for a bath. The goal is to reduce stress to the fish so guessing isn't ideal but .5 a degree isn't going to stress him much.

You can feed him as usual after the dip.

 

[hannahrlynch]

A little confused by the 266 gph bit... Hot/cold water is fine if you can test it with a thermometer, temperature shouldn't drop significantly in the 5 minutes it takes for a bath. The goal is to reduce stress to the fish so guessing isn't ideal but .5 a degree isn't going to stress him much.

You can feed him as usual after the dip.

sorry i just thought cause jay had said i had to aerate my tank well between treatments & i’m bad with all the technical stuff but my pump now is 266gph which is if i remembers s did the math correctly has a turnover rate of 11? i’m not even sure if what i’m saying makes sense i’m sorry lol

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

sorry i just thought cause jay had said i had to aerate my tank well between treatments & i’m bad with all the technical stuff but my pump now is 266gph which is if i remembers s did the math correctly has a turnover rate of 11? i’m not even sure if what i’m saying makes sense i’m sorry lol

Oh right. Parazipro will reduce O2 levels so keep the outlets of the return pump aimed at the surface for gas exchange.

 

[hannahrlynch]

Oh right. Parazipro will reduce O2 levels so keep the outlets of the return pump aimed at the surface for gas exchange.

sweet thank you so much !!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

can i use tap water & add prime dechlorinator or should i use RODI water? i have a 24 gal with 266gph. i’m not sure if that’s enough during the treatments? sorry i’m pretty new to all of this & still learning. also 5 minutes sounds like a long time & you know your stuff but he’ll be okay right? also if i do the treatment & i don’t see any of those things, then do you have any other ideas? thank you so much for all of this.

Tap water with prime is better than ro/di. 5 minutes is the standard FW dip time and puffers are pretty resilient. Here is the thing though: FW dips are stressful, and fish do die after them....but in those cases, the fish was sick enough that it would have died soon anyway.
I didn’t understand your comment about the tank size and flow rate.....
Jay

 

[hannahrlynch]

Tap water with prime is better than ro/di. 5 minutes is the standard FW dip time and puffers are pretty resilient. Here is the thing though: FW dips are stressful, and fish do die after them....but in those cases, the fish was sick enough that it would have died soon anyway.
I didn’t understand your comment about the tank size and flow rate.....
Jay

i was just thinking about how you said i have to aerate the tank well in between treatments & i’m not the best with the technical part of aquariums & was trying to explain that my pump has a 266gph which has a turnover rate of 11 i think? i’m not sure if what i’m saying makes sense honestly i’m sorry lol. i feel really bad doing the dip to be honest. he looks so happy but i can tell somethings wrong, i will do the dip tomorrow & hope for the best i love my puffer. he was actually the second puffer i got because the first one passed away within 24 hours. & my water parameters have been perfect (i get my lfs to test frequently) they had no idea what could’ve been the problem & didn’t noticed anything wrong with the other fish, but really that should have been my first red flag considering it wasn’t a problem with my water & everything else in my tank was doing great.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I see - so, turnover rate isn't quite the same thing as aeration. Turnover helps move water around the tank and to the surface, where it can pick up oxygen. However, carbon dioxide is a bit different, you need to break the surface tension and make bubbles in order to drive off the excess (think like shaking up a can of soda). I've seen issues with aquariums that have good flow, but the flow just ripples the surface and doesn't make bubbles, and that can lead to a high carbon dioxide issue. A lot of people try NOT to make any bubbles because that leads to salt spray, but really, it is important. If you have a protein skimmer on your tank, it serves the same purpose, so you are covered that way if you have one.

Jay

 

[hannahrlynch]

I see - so, turnover rate isn't quite the same thing as aeration. Turnover helps move water around the tank and to the surface, where it can pick up oxygen. However, carbon dioxide is a bit different, you need to break the surface tension and make bubbles in order to drive off the excess (think like shaking up a can of soda). I've seen issues with aquariums that have good flow, but the flow just ripples the surface and doesn't make bubbles, and that can lead to a high carbon dioxide issue. A lot of people try NOT to make any bubbles because that leads to salt spray, but really, it is important. If you have a protein skimmer on your tank, it serves the same purpose, so you are covered that way if you have one.

Jay

ahh okay thank you so much that makes more sense. i do not have a protein skimmer so can i just aim the return pump near the surface instead?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

ahh okay thank you so much that makes more sense. i do not have a protein skimmer so can i just aim the return pump near the surface instead?

Yep - just make a few bubbles is all.
Jay

 

[hannahrlynch]

Yep - just make a few bubbles is all.
Jay

i did the dip & noticed two little white seed like things and two black specs that could have been nothing but that’s it, nothing else & his eyes are still the same. i’m not sure if it was flukes would they have fallen off his eyes as well? not sure if that’s enough to diagnose it as flukes or not because there really wasn’t much that came off him from what i could tell anyways.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I would say that is sufficient to me as those sound like flukes. Proceed with treatment and aim the nozzles so water breaks the surface. What color was the dip container?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

i did the dip & noticed two little white seed like things and two black specs that could have been nothing but that’s it, nothing else & his eyes are still the same. i’m not sure if it was flukes would they have fallen off his eyes as well? not sure if that’s enough to diagnose it as flukes or not because there really wasn’t much that came off him from what i could tell anyways.

So - the eyes may take a day or two to heal, or it may not be flukes at all. There are also other flukes that live inside the eye. I’ve not seen these on puffers, but a FW won’t teach them. However, those flukes can’t reproduce in your tank because they need a secondary host to do so.
Jay

 

[hannahrlynch]

I would say that is sufficient to me as those sound like flukes. Proceed with treatment and aim the nozzles so water breaks the surface. What color was the dip container?

unfortunately i used a white 5 gal bucket lol that’s all i had on hand at the moment