Who Shapes the Reefing Industry?

[Goaway]

One thing to keep in mind about this industry is how small it is. That alone is a major factor in why a lot of gear is so expensive. You will run into a similar issue in any niche hobby unfortunately. As reefing grows in theory we should see more actual mass production of gear and prices dropping. More reefers means more opportunities for new companies to break into the market too and we are already sort of seeing that.

Hundreds of protein skimmers, diy to thousands.
Price really goes up with name as well.

Have I ever compared skimmers? No, but i have some generic piece of junk that does a much better job than my reef octopus did.

"You get what you pay for" doesn't apply well to reefing equipment. We can fool ourselves all we want. Placebo is a powerful thing. "I paid 500, it has to be better than the 100 one right?"

Sadly, not a lot of actual testing on generic equipment, it's been a gamble
Buying a piece of mind can also lead to poor customer support.

Just saying... we do have cheep options.

I see this a lot in many hobbies within the past 3 years. Covid babies come into a new hobby and feel like they will be better the more they spend. There is no greater example than in cycling. A bunch of $12,000 bikes out there only going 18mph.... Moral of the story, we have a great deal of power in our spending habits. But people for the most part don't want to think that way. They want their instant gratification and they want it NOW! Of course companies will take advantage of that. I don't blame them. If someone is willing to overpay for your items, you'd be a fool not to sell a bunch of them.

Theres a chunk of truth.

 

[Tha Reefer]

Hey Reefers! I had a thought today about who shapes the reef aquarium hobby. Is it the companies, hyping products and livestock that mold the hobby for their benefit? Or is it the Reefers, telling the industry which products and livestock they want? Maybe both? What do you think?

I would say the old timers in the industry. Most definitely all the farmers. Can't for get the youtube stars out there too. Love a good reef video. Best content is all the traveling shows. So cool.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I see this a lot in many hobbies within the past 3 years. Covid babies come into a new hobby and feel like they will be better the more they spend. There is no greater example than in cycling. A bunch of $12,000 bikes out there only going 18mph.... Moral of the story, we have a great deal of power in our spending habits. But people for the most part don't want to think that way. They want their instant gratification and they want it NOW! Of course companies will take advantage of that. I don't blame them. If someone is willing to overpay for your items, you'd be a fool not to sell a bunch of them.

I'm of the covid did more bad for this hobby (along with most niche hobbies) than good mantra. The companies had a taste of what (new) people are willing to bear price wise and said company(s) are gonna ride that wave (which they have a right to).

 

[neonreef3d]

As a person working for a reefing parts manufacturer, I can surly say that it is both. We listen to what people want, and design the parts according to their needs.

There are many reefers out there who are engineers and design parts that are inspired by other designs in an effort to improve existing products. All in all, I think that reefers have the majority influence on how it is taking shape and which direction it is headed....

This is my POV as far as equipment is concerned.... Livestock is another story. There are many facets to the reefing industry, so it tough to say how it is being shaped and who it doing the shaping... end of the day, I would say its a combination of the two. One cannot exist without the other.

 

[C4ctus99]

Same here. I can't hear the inflection of words by seeing them on a screen. I appreciate your opinion.

I appreciate y’all’s appreciation

 

[C4ctus99]

I agree with a fair amount of what I’ve seen. In general, some things have always confused me. Working in construction I install lights that cost $1,000s in hospitals for a flimsy piece of steel with some LEDs and a driver. Some things, I believe, objectively cost too much. The real question in my head is why isn’t their a big name budget brand that builds a variety of reefing equipment that doesn’t suck? And maybe one exists, just no one has pointed me in its direction yet…

Seems as though most of the options in the trade are “God literally designed this for you (so give me your arm, leg, and the title to your house)” or “here’s this cheap thing that’s gonna break, suck, or not do anything” not many middle of the road options. Budget seems to mean black box lights (rarely a brand mentioned so hard to figure out what to get) and jebao pumps

I think Covid was a big factor in driving prices and creating a “new normal” as well

 

[CasperOe]

Hey Reefers! I had a thought today about who shapes the reef aquarium hobby. Is it the companies, hyping products and livestock that mold the hobby for their benefit? Or is it the Reefers, telling the industry which products and livestock they want? Maybe both? What do you think?

Both companies and reefers play a role in shaping the reef aquarium hobby. Companies introduce new products and livestock based on reefers' demands and preferences. Reefers, in turn, provide feedback and influence the market through their choices and experiences. It's a give-and-take relationship that drives innovation and growth in the hobby. Together, they create an evolving and dynamic community

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Well, I'd say naturally companies want to make more money (that's the purpose of a business). They test the water by hyping some product that they know is overpriced (overpriced as in they're making an insane profit margin) and see if it sells. When it does sell they produce more, it becomes the standard price and other companies follow with similar products and pricing. So i guess I'd say the companies certainly influence us through marketing but we as a collective choose to support them and their pricing through making purchases. And no, if you as a single person stop buying their products it will do nothing. It would only work that way if they saw they were missing out on a large chunk of revenue.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Hey Reefers! I had a thought today about who shapes the reef aquarium hobby. Is it the companies, hyping products and livestock that mold the hobby for their benefit? Or is it the Reefers, telling the industry which products and livestock they want? Maybe both? What do you think?

This is a great topic. Just last evening I was discussing this with a buddy that stayed longer than expected because of our conversation.

I agree with folks that say the industry drives our (the consumer) ambitions to "want" the latest and greatest and in a non direct way, driving the hobby.

For some people its very easy to see cleaver marketing disguised as information. However, for the majority, it's not so easy to catch. The manipulation is so subtle that unless you have your guard up, it passes by unnoticed.

I'm not just talking about product videos from a particular online retailer. Im talking about advertising through shills, people promoting products in their build threads that were given to them for free. A clever product placement vehicle for companies.

We've been manipulatef to think and act in a way that makes us desire the next new thing. Case and point, a new product was recently released that has been anticipated for years. They quickly sold out and a buddy of mine had a bad case of FOMO (fear of missing out). He drove all over town and finally found one. Then it occurred to me that he bought this product to only use 1% of its capability, he spent money on a product that he didn't have a need for. Why? Was it to boast about having it? Does it make him feel as if it elevates his status among the community?

Don't get me wrong, all is fair in a capitalist society, but if you're wanting to know who drives the industry, it's definitely not the hobbyist. If it were the hobbyist we wouldn't have Coke vs Pepsi debates about best controllers, best light fixtures, best pumps etc. We'd be focused more on the journey of reefing and not some allure of a magic bullet that's going to make reefing experience easier.

Agree with me or not, industry definitely has control of the strings and is pulling them for their benefit.

 

[elysics]

I agree with a fair amount of what I’ve seen. In general, some things have always confused me. Working in construction I install lights that cost $1,000s in hospitals for a flimsy piece of steel with some LEDs and a driver. Some things, I believe, objectively cost too much. The real question in my head is why isn’t their a big name budget brand that builds a variety of reefing equipment that doesn’t suck? And maybe one exists, just no one has pointed me in its direction yet…

Seems as though most of the options in the trade are “God literally designed this for you (so give me your arm, leg, and the title to your house)” or “here’s this cheap thing that’s gonna break, suck, or not do anything” not many middle of the road options. Budget seems to mean black box lights (rarely a brand mentioned so hard to figure out what to get) and jebao pumps

I think Covid was a big factor in driving prices and creating a “new normal” as well

The middle of the road stuff with good quality exists. Tunze, Eheim, Hydor, etc.

But they don't have fancy stuff with modern design and all the cloud features. Especially LEDs and hyper blue lighting is more of a recent thing here, the traditional companies are slow to react.

So the chain is expensive high end enthusiast gear with great design and new features for those with deep pockets and the will to try something new - > cheap Chinese copies with even more features but questionable quality looking for volunteer lab rats - > skeptical first forays from those middle ground companies after they see that it works and everyone wants it.

 

[fish farmer]

Well, I'd say naturally companies want to make more money (that's the purpose of a business). They test the water by hyping some product that they know is overpriced (overpriced as in they're making an insane profit margin) and see if it sells. When it does sell they produce more, it becomes the standard price and other companies follow with similar products and pricing. So i guess I'd say the companies certainly influence us through marketing but we as a collective choose to support them and their pricing through making purchases. And no, if you as a single person stop buying their products it will do nothing. It would only work that way if they saw they were missing out on a large chunk of revenue.

Yes to this and companies are going to market product that most people want/need. If the masses want a three drain silent overflow, that's what is going to get made.

I have a cheap Glass Holes overflow, one hole, noisy, but it works for my needs, but the company and product are gone. I also have a dimmable Build My LED fixture that is nearing ten years old, the company stopped making the reef product years ago. I was recently looking to replace it and could only find two products that had similar specs, one dimmable at a similar price point and one with a new high end controller which is overkill for my needs and price point.

 

[The Roaming Reefer]

I think the reefing hobby is in a stage of making things “better” with each iteration and not “cheaper”. The cheaper part will come eventually as it does with just about any technology. There will always be “luxury” options within any equipment category.

 

[Fink]

The middle of the road stuff with good quality exists. Tunze, Eheim, Hydor, etc.

But they don't have fancy stuff with modern design and all the cloud features. Especially LEDs and hyper blue lighting is more of a recent thing here, the traditional companies are slow to react.

So the chain is expensive high end enthusiast gear with great design and new features for those with deep pockets and the will to try something new - > cheap Chinese copies with even more features but questionable quality looking for volunteer lab rats - > skeptical first forays from those middle ground companies after they see that it works and everyone wants it.

To the hyper blue lighting point, I added a cheap reefbrite 48" strip to my aquatic life T5 setup, and when the T5's go off and the reefbrite ramps down for the night, it looks better (to my eye) than the Kessil i used to run.

 

[Anemone_Fanatic]

The hobby is controlled by them...

But yeah, consumers have a lot of influence. However, the sellers have more power to shape prices than we think. Of course what we are willing to pay for affects prices, but if sellers increase prices by only a little bit yearly, we don't notice. That's what I've seen done with equipment. A common trick I see with corals is the use of sales. Let's say that a vendor is selling a specific kind of coral for 20$. They then raise the price to 25$, and have an 80% sale. You buy your coral for 20$, same as before. After the sale, the price goes "back" up to 25$. With the hype from the sale, nobody notices. Same thing happens with equipment, but not as much. In order to counteract this, all hobbyists need to do is not participate in live sales and keep a close eye on coral pricing. Also, support your local LFS. Maybe you'll get aiptasia and bubble algae from buying their coral, but at least you'll be supporting small businesses. This is especially important when you consider that large online farms are likely multi-million dollar businesses. Buy local and shop savvy!

 

[KrisReef]

Good question!

Consumers shape the market.

Supply is based on the demand. And we (the Reefers) make the demands.

So I would answer that we, the Reefers, shape the industry.

THis is a "was the chicken or egg first?" question.

(Note, I have never seen an egg walking into a petstore looking for the chicken that laid it)

The availability of products to sell, especially in the livestock side of the reefing industry can be a huge "shaper" imo.

The sellers market their wares to attract customers who are in the market and also to attract new customers into the market if/when they can. In the end, disposable income and the huge availability of cheap money also play large roles in the performance of this market and all of the others.

I am glad I lived when these opportunities were available to us for consumption. Thanks to the sponsors on here, and the frag sellers, and the mods who volunteered to make Reef2Reef free again.

 

[Dom]

THis is a "was the chicken or egg first?" question.

(Note, I have never seen an egg walking into a petstore looking for the chicken that laid it)

The availability of products to sell, especially in the livestock side of the reefing industry can be a huge "shaper" imo.

The sellers market their wares to attract customers who are in the market and also to attract new customers into the market if/when they can. In the end, disposable income and the huge availability of cheap money also play large roles in the performance of this market and all of the others.

I am glad I lived when these opportunities were available to us for consumption. Thanks to the sponsors on here, and the frag sellers, and the mods who volunteered to make Reef2Reef free again.

Excellent point and a unique perspective.