Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[Cwentz758]

I’m learning I need to upgrade things like I do my cellphone. Wait three versions and buy new.

 

[h2so4hurts]

7 or 8 years is way too long.

My XR30W cost about $900 new.
My 250w DE Giesseman fixture cost about $450 new.

The Giesseman goes through about $120 worth of bulbs a year. That puts the horizon at 4 years. It uses about $50 more a year in electricity than the XR30W - that lowers the horizon to 31 months. And thats not even accounting for the additional HVAC load and other cooling concerns.

You can argue that the Geisseman is a silly luxury fixture (and it is) - but so is the Radion. The numbers are even more in LEDs favor once you start comparing cheap LED fixtures vs cheap halide fixtures.

I'd agree with this assessment if the luxury LED fixtures lasted more than 4-5 years before diodes started to die. That's what sucks about these fixtures. They generally break well after the warranty period, but well before they make up the cost different between a bulb fixture, a black box, or a DIY. I have one DIY rapidled fixture I built 7 years ago. A diode dies and it takes 5 minutes to replace and costs $3. If your Kessil dies you're out $400.

 

[User1]

Everything grows in price because WE continue to pay the exorbitant price. This will only continue as long as WE accept it as normal. Yah some will chalk it up as R&D, inflation, off shore tariffs and the such, but prices are climbing to fast for that. It’s a money grab, one company sees they can command a certain price and then miraculously every other comparable light is near the same price. Thats not happenstance. Look at every item in this industry, from reactors, sump, chems, etc the are all priced similarly. Anything priced slightly less is just an underbidding sales tactic.

The problem is if your in the game, then they have you.

Review the Big Mac or Milk index. This isn't the fault of the hobbyist buying.

 

[teller]

Everything grows in price because WE continue to pay the exorbitant price. This will only continue as long as WE accept it as normal. Yah some will chalk it up as R&D, inflation, off shore tariffs and the such, but prices are climbing to fast for that. It’s a money grab, one company sees they can command a certain price and then miraculously every other comparable light is near the same price. Thats not happenstance. Look at every item in this industry, from reactors, sump, chems, etc the are all priced similarly. Anything priced slightly less is just an underbidding sales tactic.

The problem is if your in the game, then they have you.

You are so right.

 

[Silver14SS]

I so totally agree with you.
There is that thing .... we all have a need list and a want list. Maybe it is better will fulfill the need list first, just my opinion.

There's another thread with 100 responses about why ATO containers cost so much. If financial prudence is the top priority, I’m not sure why someone would keep a reef tank at all.

Maybe self built and installed solar tubes are the best lighting solution?

 

[Phil D.]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece. Plus they can only cover about 24”x24”. So most likely your need 2-3 even 6. Costing $1700- $5,100. So what are the life expectancy 5years or more? Really surprise that the cost only comes down when a new generation comes out. Seems to me why a company can put a more reasonable price especially the actual area they cover. It’s probably the second important equipment you need in a reef tank. What’s your opinion?

In actuality, LED life expectancy is 12-15 years.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

In actuality, LED life expectancy is 12-15 years.

Is it even that short? I thought it was even longer than that, but it’s the guts of the fixture that go bad.

IMO lights are crazy expensive because everyone needs them, and they’re fun technology. People just getting into the hobby will decide that an APEX isn’t necessary, but they need 3x AI Prime 16 HD over their 20 gallon tank because their GSP needs proper coverage.

We have also seen a lot of ”research” being put into lights these days. I have no idea how good the research is, but it sure seems to have helped Radion sell lights.

 

[Phil D.]

That life expectancy is if you run it 24/7

 

[Victor_C3]

I just went with the tried and true technology of T5’s for my newest build. Sure I’llreplace $150-$200 of bulbs every year, but every few years I’m not buying new lights. I’m sure in the long run I’m saving money. The electricity costs differs between LED’s and T5’s is not that different.

There is also significantly less fidgeting with settings to optimize coloration and growth. T5’s just work.

Aside from all that, I’m disappointed by the apparent lack of progress made over the last decade in LED lighting. I’ve been out of the hobby for about 10 years, but other than more variety in fixtures available, things don’t seem to be that different to me.

 

[User1]

In actuality, LED life expectancy is 12-15 years.

It will vary by manufacture. For example look at Kessil's FAQ and they say 5 - 7 years with notes about various potential things that could impact that. Depends on a lot of things at the end of the day but one thing I believe is that they last longer than bulbs

 

[atoll]

That life expectancy is if you run it 24/7

But the PAR drop off will be significant.

 

[roblox84]

Leds should have gotten much cheaper by now but they are pretty much just as expensive as when they came out for this hobby. Even Chinese black boxes haven't budged in price much

 

[Phil D.]

But the PAR drop off will be significant.

Not necessarily. LEDs run at full intensity until they die. (I'm an Electronics Tech)

 

[squampton]

And depending on which country one is in (US prices are not all that bad) exchange rates come into play as well. A Kessil A160 that is $239 on BRS is $299 at my local store in Canada which doesn't likely even cover the full cost of the exchange rate so stores here likely make less profit on top. $239 US = $329 CAD$.

Sometimes I look at BRS and dream as when your in Canada, US prices seem low...

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Every 3 months a thread like this come up.
I will play the OP in advance because I personally I am fed up with this stupid kind of threads.
Yes you can use use and buy MH there are some suppliers in the USA, I am from EU.
You can use and buy T5 fixtures.
Why you OP do not buy a MH or T5 fixtures??????
I don not get anymore this kind of threads,,,,,
this kind of threads never end well.
Please use and buy whatever light technology you want and you can afford.
I am little p... off because every time this kind of threads come up never end well.
My little rant. I am sorry. But too much is too much. Don´t like led, buy MH and or T5.

Do you want to know what p***es me off? It's people feel the need to come to the defense of inflated prices. I equate that to stoking your fireplace with hundred dollar bills to stay warm. And it baffles my mind how people with zero steak in a companies profit feel the need to defend them like they do.

There's no doubt in my mind we pay premium pricing for a lot of these products and price can definitely come down and companies will still profit.

I know this hobby is full of elitist mentalities who like the idea that you CAN'T have what they CAN afford. And that's why you see companies set prices the way they do. There are enough people that willingly pay for it and that drags along those that can't afford it, but want it, "so let's just charge it on the card!"

The word "expensive" is subjective, and so is "worth" and "value". You can't fault someone for questioning the price of led fixtures.

 

[Duncan Tse]

LOL higher end leds = luxury item. Of course they will be expensive. That's like complaining why Macs and Gucci are so expensive. It's all about the branding. There are always cheaper options such as black box, kessils, reefleds. If it's out of your budget then don't buy it. No need to complain about the higher cost. Do you need it to run a successful tank? Nope. I have seen beautiful reef tanks running all sorts of lights.

 

[hyprc]

Is it even that short? I thought it was even longer than that, but it’s the guts of the fixture that go bad.

IMO lights are crazy expensive because everyone needs them, and they’re fun technology. People just getting into the hobby will decide that an APEX isn’t necessary, but they need 3x AI Prime 16 HD over their 20 gallon tank because their GSP needs proper coverage.

We have also seen a lot of ”research” being put into lights these days. I have no idea how good the research is, but it sure seems to have helped Radion sell lights.

What'll really cook your noodle is how much faster the power supply drops off in efficiency.

 

[Plunder]

My gut tells me partially to cover R&D costs. Also, LEDs are more versatile and convenient. All in all, the price fits market demands. My two cents.

Don't let last longer, also?

 

[blasterman]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece.

The word "expensive" is subjective, and so is "worth" and "value". You can't fault someone for questioning the price of led fixtures.

I'm not the one buying them , and I know dozens of hardcore reef keepers with incredible tanks that have never bought a Radion or similiar overpriced light and never will. Most run black boxes...the rest run T5's.

I'll quote the statistics again; the average salt water hobbiest is in and out of the hobby in less than 24 months. They spend a lot of money initially and these lighting companies need to get as much money from them as possible up front before they end up selling their gear on the local reef forum. That's why the lights don't last.

Serious reefers *do not* buy lights that put out 60watts and cost $800. Those are for the idiots with a lot of cash to burn and want a Pirates of the Caribbean mode. *All* the LEDs used in these over priced lights I can buy from Mouser for a couple bucks, and frankly I could design better thermal management and certainly use better drivers. All the lights I build are spec'd for 100k hours with 70% performance. Reef lights don't even measure up to the standards of the general lighting industry yet cost 4-8x more per lumen.

Then we have comments like:

"There is also significantly less fidgeting with settings to optimize coloration and growth. T5’s just work."

...which are so ridiculous they barely warrant response, but since T5 owners seem to be in a religion that defies scientific basis I'm not surprised.

When you have people that believe Fluorescent tubes were created for the reefing industry and T5s (which have a lower life expetency than T8 and T12's which is why T5's never look off in the general lighting industry) emit specially tuned photons that automatically adjust to the light requirements of coral it makes the people buying the $800 60 wall LED fixture seem like mensa candidates.

 

[Crustaceon]

LEDs are sold under the premise of lasting way longer than other light sources when in reality, the individual diodes are not immune to QC issues and undetected imperfections which drastically shorten their lives. In an ideal scenario, a diode will reach its advertised lifespan. But in reality a diode will typically fail after 2-3 years over a tank, along with the drivers, potentiometers, etc. I’ve never owned an LED, screw in replacement or aquarium-wise that has lasted anywhere near as long as advertised. I cost every light with a 2-3 year replacement in mind for this reason.