Why are LED lights so Expensive?

[James Johnson]

Economics people!!!!!!!!!!!! If it’s too expensive no one will buy it and they will lower the price. Since they are not lowering the price and people keep buying them they have set a fair price. Just because you cannot a Ford something doesn’t mean it’s too expensive it just means your cheap or need a better paying job. Smart people learned years ago you can DIY leds yourself

 

[Jose A Venereo]

The average hobbyist is willing to pay a premium for these products (including myself). There is a demand for the product with excellent marketing strategy. Also, we don't know the cost of production and how much inventory they can generate at a given time. In addition these companies count on planned obsolescence (i.e. We "have" to upgrade every so often).

 

[Jsimon]

I think the question should be aimed more at the new reefers. When you first start a reef tank for the first time. You don’t really know what equipment will give you the best bang for your buck. So the tendency is to go with the “ best known” equipment via what you read. Many times this is the equipment that people with successful reefs use, due to their reviews. When this occurs many people never even hear about the cheaper alternatives that work for their needs. This allows the big names in manufacturing to get free advertising due to word of mouth. Maybe we as a community need to get the word out on some of these alternative gear pieces to better educate all the newer people who come into this hobby without a clue. By doing this just maybe newer competitors will come out that would enable the reduction in prices for many common types of equipment

 

[psychobilly07]

To stay in business, supply and demand, its a small niche market if there was greater demand they would be alot cheaper like TV’s

 

[92Miata]

The problem with most cost examples is the coverage of led. Would you hang just one over a 4 foot tank? Probably not. Now you need 2. Maybe even 3? Shading might be an issue with 2.

Or just slap a 6 to 8 bulb 48 inch t5 fixture and away you go for a decade.

The coverage is exactly the same as the 250w Geissman MH I was comparing it to. It handles 24x24 without any problems

An 8 bulb t5 fixture is 500+ watts after ballast losses, and about $700 for the ATI fixture, so a $1000 difference between that and two X30w new. Oh, it doesn't come with bulbs, so $860 new (8* cheapest bulb on BRS), and $840 difference.

200w difference @ 12hr/day is $150/yr at national average electricity prices - which puts us at 5.6 years payoff. Which is a long time. But that's not accounting for another $160 a year in bulbs.

Which puts us a 33 months before the LEDs have completely paid for themselves and you're paying an additional $310 a year to run T5s.

Even with *ridiculous overpriced* LED fixtures (and yes, all the big name LED fixtures are ridiculously overpriced) they're still significantly cheaper than other lighting options. You could buy brand new Radion xr30w fixures at $900 a piece every 3 years and still be cheaper than running 8x54w t5s.

(and crap - forget the blackbox lights - they probably pay themselves off in 9 months)

its just all up-front. Which has its costs (like inflation, time value of money, etc).

 

[atoll]

Ecotech actually developed their spectrum in a laboratory. They conducted various experiments to develop a combination that would grow corals most effectively. So yes, some companies do have men in lab coats testing their lights in laboratories LOL

Great, do you have a link as I am sure they would publish what and how they do their research.

 

[oreo54]

Great, do you have a link as I am sure they would publish what and how they do their research.

As soon as I see ATI's tube studies..
Sorry nobody does this..not MH's, not tubes.. Best you get is spectrum and hear say..

 

[fcmatt]

The coverage is exactly the same as the 250w Geissman MH I was comparing it to. It handles 24x24 without any problems

An 8 bulb t5 fixture is 500+ watts after ballast losses, and about $700 for the ATI fixture, so a $1000 difference between that and two X30w new. Oh, it doesn't come with bulbs, so $860 new (8* cheapest bulb on BRS), and $840 difference.

200w difference @ 12hr/day is $150/yr at national average electricity prices - which puts us at 5.6 years payoff. Which is a long time. But that's not accounting for another $160 a year in bulbs.

Which puts us a 33 months before the LEDs have completely paid for themselves and you're paying an additional $310 a year to run T5s.

Even with *ridiculous overpriced* LED fixtures (and yes, all the big name LED fixtures are ridiculously overpriced) they're still significantly cheaper than other lighting options. You could buy brand new Radion xr30w fixures at $900 a piece every 3 years and still be cheaper than running 8x54w t5s.

(and crap - forget the blackbox lights - they probably pay themselves off in 9 months)

its just all up-front. Which has its costs (like inflation, time value of money, etc).

I know you are right when it comes to the math. I am a math person. I admit it. Led in a perfect world will beat all solutions when it comes to electricity costs/bulb replacement. It is also a decent source of light now days.

My issue is the real world i guess. In the real world I buy a dozen led bulbs for my house and in a 2 or 3 years I am already replacing them. The whole cost analysis is thrown out the window. And then I see what goes on here with led lighting. People buy 3 to 5 of these things and in 2 or 3 years they are dealing with failures.

If these things were so awesome everyone would be running 4 to 7 year old led lighting right now. But I doubt many are using led that old. A handful I suppose. Every single year the new hotness comes out. Unlike boring t5 which has peaked long ago design wise.

So to wrap it up.. when people all are happy with their led lighting and the constant upgrade nonsense is over... i will consider led. By then a purchase might actually run for 7 years plus and be solid. The whole led thing has been going on for a decade now and still not ironed out like i thought it would be.... t5 today.. the stuff just works and runs forever with easily replaceable parts. A clean 10 year old ati fixture is just as awesome as a new one today. A 10 year old led light for reefing is garbage.

Anyway.. just debating

 

[oreo54]

My issue is the real world i guess. In the real world I buy a dozen led bulbs for my house and in a 2 or 3 years I am already replacing them. The whole cost analysis is thrown out the window. And then I see what goes on here with led lighting. People buy 3 to 5 of these things and in 2 or 3 years they are dealing with failures.

Well the 2 environments shouldn't be compared. Home lighting is like compact florescents in the past. Same lies..
AC/DC conversion on board in a high heat environment leads to premature failure..
Also remeber flourescents that could only last if put "base down".,.

Point is aquarium lights should be better designed to handle it's environment..

 

[92Miata]

My issue is the real world i guess. In the real world I buy a dozen led bulbs for my house and in a 2 or 3 years I am already replacing them. The whole cost analysis is thrown out the window. And then I see what goes on here with led lighting. People buy 3 to 5 of these things and in 2 or 3 years they are dealing with failures.

If these things were so awesome everyone would be running 4 to 7 year old led lighting right now. But I doubt many are using led that old. A handful I suppose. Every single year the new hotness comes out. Unlike boring t5 which has peaked long ago design wise.

A lot of us are running 4+ year old LED fixtures. The chinese black box I have on my Nuvo10 is from 2012, and it was probably $100 new. Its big and chunky and well cooled though.

Its also weird to me that people consider T5s old-hat. When I was first getting into reefing in 2003 or so - people were just starting to really talk about T5s - and it was probably a year before the first viable LED fixtures came out. They were like $2k for a 24" fixture at the time (I can not for the life of me remember who made them) - but they kept corals fine. Its not that LEDs are new - its that they keep getting better - the technology has so much higher of an efficiency ceiling than fluorescents do.

Anyways - $3 household LED bulbs are passively cooled, and barely at that. And they're often put in exactly the sort of fixtures they're not designed for - enclosed cans/housings/etc that block airflow to the fins.

LED aquarium fixtures are actively cooled with fans and big heatsinks. They're just not comparable at all. Sure - some of them are poorly made - but that's mostly manufacturers trying to cut corners -not a tech issue - and you'll find the same issues with t5s - ballasts and bulbs running at higher temps than they're supposed to.

 

[BZOFIQ]

You want great value and great light in one sentence - buy ATI T5 fixture.

Supplement it with ReefBrite strip if you want o to add shimmer at the beginning and end cycle.

I am not going to attempt to answer the OP question; the light manufacturer can do that - but they won't

 

[salty150]

If you have ever seen the videos of Terrance (Neptune Systems, Apex, etc.) in his huge house - or the new (2013) BRS offices and warehouse - you have some idea why these marine items are so expensive.

 

[austibella]

Why are these company’s putting out a light fixture that cost $840 a piece. Plus they can only cover about 24”x24”. So most likely your need 2-3 even 6. Costing $1700- $5,100. So what are the life expectancy 5years or more? Really surprise that the cost only comes down when a new generation comes out. Seems to me why a company can put a more reasonable price especially the actual area they cover. It’s probably the second important equipment you need in a reef tank. What’s your opinion?

this is why...I have 3 radion XR 30 PRO's you get what you pay for. My corals doubled in size after installing them. Buy the time I got my radions, then pay to get the kits to hang them and also buy 3 diffusers. I have over $3,000 invested. I just spent over $500. For a octopus 120R Biochurn. .not to mention everything else for my tank.....we are all playing mother nature trying to mimic the ocean to give the best life in a tank for all our fish and corals. Is it expensive yes. But that is what we all signed up for. Can you go cheeper, yes, but it will show in your tank.....these companys have to make the product then hire lawyers to protect their design, then pay employees, shipping boxing, liability insurance, health insurance, rent. etc. do you have any idea how much money it cost to make a product ??? So our cost for a great product is understandable. Hey if I can spend hundreds for 1 coral.i can invest hundreds for proper lighting, pumps etc. I would rather spend my money making my tank beautiful with healthy happy animals then waisting a hundred dollars drinking in a bar.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I feel like you get what you pay for. I love my AI's. Had AI Primes, went to Hydra 32s. Customer support is amazing at AI as well. You want Chinese black lights, go for it. But I want quality made lights with the Apps and so forth.

 

[maxwell]

I have $5k of led lighting over my tank and its the 3rd swap out in 5 years average length of time before some burn out is 3 years ,radions burn out at the connector to the power pcb and gen3 comes on when it wants often failure in the morning so needs to be switched on and off its the reliability factor for me. UV leds burn out in fixtures and discolour the lenses .

 

[Doglips56]

Well, they don't all cost that. You can certainly find cheap LED lights that will grow coral like nobody's business...and in some cases maybe even better than the expensive lights!

Please tell! I’d love to have different lights

 

[ajm83]

I have $5k of led lighting over my tank and its the 3rd swap out in 5 years average length of time before some burn out is 3 years ,radions burn out at the connector to the power pcb and gen3 comes on when it wants often failure in the morning so needs to be switched on and off its the reliability factor for me. UV leds burn out in fixtures and discolour the lenses .

That's pretty poor. Really for the price a 3 year warranty wouldn't be unreasonable.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Great, do you have a link as I am sure they would publish what and how they do their research.

https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

 

[alton]

You have always heard food for thought? Here is Light for thought.
In 2000 my boss moved into a new office and wanted a saltwater aquarium. For 20 years he had a 60 gallon FW tank in his old office, and put me in charge. After talking to his daughter (who was the interior decorator) we came up with 60” x 18” x 29” tall. I had an accomplice in all this that was stuck on high end equipment so I agreed to get a Giesemann Moon Light Fixture. 2 x 250 watt HQI, 2 x T10 Fluorescent lamps and a 5 watt incandescent lamp in the center with an onboard computer, $2,800.00. I can’t imagine spending that kind of money for lighting in 2000, so I guess it would compare to $6,000 today? The light is still operating today on the same aquarium with only one ballast change, HQI lamps every two years, T8 lamps every year.
so
$2,800 original cost of light
$2,000 for HQI lamps every two years
$1,000 for T8 Lamps every year
$200 for ballast?
$6,000 for 20 years at $300 per year for lighting
Oh yea the same maintenance guy has been taking care of the tank also. Once a week visit say $40 a visit, so 52 x $40 = $2,080 a year for 20 years $41,600. And everyone is worried about a few thousand in lights.

 

[RayDRoot]

Hi , I am amazed that reefers take all the hype about leds as gospel , I have have been running various led units for 5 years and have had multiple failures and believe your findings as to the quality of leds being used in reef lighting even though we pay through the nose for them . What I have never seen is FAILURE RATES BY MANUFATURER/models posted in polls on forums which would be the only way for the manufactures to reduce the price structure as people would shy away from them . Why do we get upgrades on light units every couple of years is it because of fault rates and reliability ??? .My personal opinion is that you are lucky if you get 3 years out of any led light fixture with the odd one going the distance only way to tell is if reefers accept they have had a failure and that's a reason for another upgrade.

I don't know if I'm lucky but my XR30 Gen 2 ran for 7 years no problems, just replaced them w/ xr15 gen 5 pro's. Hope they last as long.