Why are lights mounted so high in propagation facilities?

[jda]

I forgot my main point which is that light blend is much better at distance.

Also, with the output turned to max, they don't save much running electrical cost over other light sources which is why some still mix in some MH and almost all of the facilities in Europe use banks of T5s for these situations.

 

[rtparty]

Most of these places have shallow tanks. This is important.

I mostly care acropora and the two best acropora growers that I know under LED both have their panels up high with all channels at/near 100%. A spectrum around 10-14k and lots of output. Interestingly, they both use Photon V2.

BRS makes videos to sell products, not really to help people be successful reefing. There are other videos out there of actually how to reef. I would not trust any BRS video without a lot of verification and stuff. Check out Tim Herman and Adam Dickerson on some of the YouTube reef podcasts if you really want to see how people who grow corals fully indoors do it.

If you can’t learn how to reef from BRS videos, this hobby definitely isn’t for you. You won’t be able to learn from anybody

 

[Hooz]

BRS makes videos to sell products, not really to help people be successful reefing. There are other videos out there of actually how to reef. I would not trust any BRS video without a lot of verification and stuff. Check out Tim Herman and Adam Dickerson on some of the YouTube reef podcasts if you really want to see how people who grow corals fully indoors do it.

The older lighting videos that we got before BRS was bought out were a VERY good resource. They tested multiple lights from multiple vendors and found what worked "best" for each one. Sadly, we'll never see that type of video from them anymore I'm afraid.

I did think it was kind of funny that all seven of the 52SE tanks have Kessil lights, though. Most in combination with AI Blades, but Kessil powered nonetheless.

I think I saw/read that Tidal Gardens uses Orpheks and Radions, WWC uses almost exclusively Radions, Battlecorals uses ReefBreeders Photons, and that local celebrity SPS farmer, @therman certainly also uses ReefBreeders Photons. We have a local Coral Farm in our area that uses Radions, Blades and natural sunlight (greenhouses) to grow coral.

I think the lesson here is that you can be successful with many different types of lights as long as they are tailored to your system and your individual needs.

 

[jda]

I suppose that people can learn to cook with a slap chop infomercial.

If folks cannot see that the videos are more infomercials than ever, then I don't know what to tell you. Have to expect this with the conglomo buying BRS and needing to sell their products on it. I don't blame them, but I also don't have to trust them.

I really hope that everybody knows that some shops, and even hobbyists, are paid to use Radions and a few other brands of lights. These people are not objective at all - they will even tell you so if you see them at a show.

 

[therman]

The older lighting videos that we got before BRS was bought out were a VERY good resource. They tested multiple lights from multiple vendors and found what worked "best" for each one. Sadly, we'll never see that type of video from them anymore I'm afraid.

I did think it was kind of funny that all seven of the 52SE tanks have Kessil lights, though. Most in combination with AI Blades, but Kessil powered nonetheless.

I think I saw/read that Tidal Gardens uses Orpheks and Radions, WWC uses almost exclusively Radions, Battlecorals uses ReefBreeders Photons, and that local celebrity SPS farmer, @therman certainly also uses ReefBreeders Photons. We have a local Coral Farm in our area that uses Radions, Blades and natural sunlight (greenhouses) to grow coral.

I think the lesson here is that you can be successful with many different types of lights as long as they are tailored to your system and your individual needs.

I'm a local celebrity now?!!

 

[Hooz]

I'm a local celebrity now?!!

Us Ohio guys have to stick together!

 

[jda]

What a load of bunk. More like a national celebrity.

 

[nereefpat]

Things already mentioned:
Easier to work in tanks.
LEDs "blend" better at greater heights.
Tanks are shallow.
Higher = more coverage.

Another thing is that they probably don't give a rip about glare or light spill. Most LED users would probably be better off with lights mounter higher and turned up to a higher percentage, but our tanks are in our living rooms.

 

[rtparty]

If all you look for in a video is to be sold a product, you will see what you want to see

 

[danreef55]

Ok now I am a bit concerned. Are you stating that the empirical data provided by BRS is factious?
I watched the lighting segments and 'their data' shows that blades with radions are the best option.
Is this coincidence or biased. If it was biased it was done masterfully.
I am an experienced reefer albeit without recent experience and I do watch their videos. That being said I frequently come to R2R to do further research as well as other sources. There are details in each of these videos that I wasnt aware of so. What's up?

 

[FUNGI]

Things already mentioned:
Easier to work in tanks.
LEDs "blend" better at greater heights.
Tanks are shallow.
Higher = more coverage.

Another thing is that they probably don't give a rip about glare or light spill. Most LED users would probably be better off with lights mounter higher and turned up to a higher percentage, but our tanks are in our living rooms.

And the quick in and out of the tank as live stock gets sold....

 

[jda]

Ok now I am a bit concerned. Are you stating that the empirical data provided by BRS is factious?
I watched the lighting segments and 'their data' shows that blades with radions are the best option.
Is this coincidence or biased. If it was biased it was done masterfully.
I am an experienced reefer albeit without recent experience and I do watch their videos. That being said I frequently come to R2R to do further research as well as other sources. There are details in each of these videos that I wasnt aware of so. What's up?

Who are you asking? If me, or anybody, I do not trust them very much. They always have had some bad takes and videos, but they just disappear without nary a comment. Their dry rock videos led many astray with high po4 and years of dinos and hair algae. They had videos on using reactors and buying all kinds of equipment to use on new tanks thus keeping ecosystems from developing - videos gone now. Vibrant was a huge issue where they ran tests with it and stuff and were more of a shil than anybody - those have all now disappeared and even a semi apology has disappeared. Their light videos usually always end up on products with the highest margin - the biggest example that I can think of is the chaeto growth video that shows that a Home Depot light removed no3 and po4 down to zero just like the Kessil, but the still recommended an expensive light due to chaeto weight (which is water weight). Now, the company that owns AI and EcoTech also owns them, right? Bertram at least owns a portion of BRS.

Empirical? No. ...but no less empirical than the content that they produce. The best stuff that they ever produced was just measurements without any editorializing.

The videos can be Ok if you understand what they are... biased infomercials with some shreds of things that you should probably confirm elsewhere.

Add in that the best coral growers that I can think of do not use what they recommend.

 

[danreef55]

Hey jda,
I was addressing everyone that is interested in this thread which I guess is now in the wrong forum

 

[nereefpat]

And the quick in and out of the tank as live stock gets sold....

Falls under "Easier to work in tanks."

 

[Hooz]

Ok now I am a bit concerned. Are you stating that the empirical data provided by BRS is factious?
I watched the lighting segments and 'their data' shows that blades with radions are the best option.
Is this coincidence or biased. If it was biased it was done masterfully.
I am an experienced reefer albeit without recent experience and I do watch their videos. That being said I frequently come to R2R to do further research as well as other sources. There are details in each of these videos that I wasnt aware of so. What's up?

Defining "best" is difficult. Best for me may not be best for you. That being said...

BRS was bought out by the same venture capital firm that owns Aqua Illumination, Ecotech and Neptune.

Does that automatically mean that everything that BRS says about those products is false? Not necessarily, but you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Several big name coral growers are successful with other brands of lights, but there are just as many that are successful with Radions. It really comes down to your preference, your budget and what you're trying to do.

 

[danreef55]

Caveat emptor is almost always applicable

 

[rtparty]

For BRS to totally manipulate PAR readings on 50+ lights would be caught so quick. They would be destroyed overnight with something like that.

I can say for a fact I have bought, run, and tested almost every major LED on the market and my tests are all close enough that sensor error can be the reason for slight misses here and there.

The latest lighting series is very well done and there is a ton of knowledge that one can apply. To say it is a "slap chop" infomercial is about the most ridiculous thing I have read in a while but not surprising.

 

[Hooz]

For BRS to totally manipulate PAR readings on 50+ lights would be caught so quick. They would be destroyed overnight with something like that.

I can say for a fact I have bought, run, and tested almost every major LED on the market and my tests are all close enough that sensor error can be the reason for slight misses here and there.

The latest lighting series is very well done and there is a ton of knowledge that one can apply. To say it is a "slap chop" infomercial is about the most ridiculous thing I have read in a while but not surprising.

Even if you ignore their spectrum settings, the wealth of information BRS published about mounting height and spread is worth watching the videos for if they've done one on your light.

In their last round of testing, the shadowing test is what got me, and really made me evaluate my lighting solutions. Did those tests spotlight certain brands? Yes, they did. The proof was right there on the screen for you to see for yourself, though. If you think it's important or not is up to you, but there was absolutely no denying that some lights (or combination of lights) were clearly better.

 

[danreef55]

They conducted the test on basically every major fixture. I would wager that at least some of the manufacturers whose products did not exhibit optimal level would push back. Personally, I learn something from every one of their videos. Regan said it best.... trust but verify

 

[Troylee]

They conducted the test on basically every major fixture. I would wager that at least some of the manufacturers whose products did not exhibit optimal level would push back. Personally, I learn something from every one of their videos. Regan said it best.... trust but verify

Have them put up numbers of a reefi uno pro against their flagship the xr30… they won’t do it! From people I know and research on here and else where not many people happy with the ai blades “hot spots” color drops across the bars etc.. tons of people have returned them but yet they still push them.