Why are local forums/clubs struggling?

[Humblefish]

I once gave up my mobile phone (for about a month). Went outside and threw the thing on the ground. Stomped on it too! That was the most peaceful month I've had in recent memory. But my wife kept griping that she couldn't get ahold of me, so I finally relented.

 

[puffy127]

...That was the most peaceful month I've had in recent memory. But my wife kept griping that she couldn't get ahold of me....

 

[gcarroll]

$650/year to Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission just to have an online fish business has sort of soured me. Plus, did you know even hobbyists are supposed to get an Aquaculture Certificate ($100/year) in order to sell frags you propagated yourself??

Yep that's California for ya. Taxes every way you turn!

In California, if you import corals or fish one thing needed is state permit for that import and they may come to your home/business to see how well creatures being taken care of. And permits not free.

Import is the key part in that equation. Very few ever actually import as they almost always go through a wholesaler or trans shipper.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

There are approximately 328M people in the US (total population). There are approximately 238M smart phones alone in the US. That means 73% of the entire population owns a smart phone. Granted some people have more than one, but you get my point. Adjust the population number for people say over the age of 18 (23% are under 18) you are looking at ~253M people. Spreading the 238M phones across those 253M you're looking at 94% of the population.

That's a long way around of saying, most people have and carry phones. There are very few people who do not.

The #1 answer why many people don't (I use all tech. possible ) have phones is, they don't want the world knowing anything of them, especially the governments. Simple

 

[TheEngineer]

The #1 answer why many people don't (I use all tech. possible ) have phones is, they don't want the world knowing anything of them, especially the governments. Simple

You're killing me.... Where are you coming up with these "facts"?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

You're killing me.... Where are you coming up with these "facts"?

I tell you this because my clients, wealthy, not rich and regular Joe's tell me. That's my stats. Sorry

And when I get a hold of them 25+years of clients, they don't own, carry one . For real

 

[TheEngineer]

Anyway... we're getting off topic...

My take on local clubs is that they exist to create benefit for its members. If the members don't see the benefit, there is no need for the club. I try and make sure our club spends it funds on things that are valuable to our members. We used to spend nearly all of our annual budget on food for meetings. I put an end to that. We now provide snacks (the meetings are after dinner time) and spend our money on useful things like a par meter, free DIY projects, and really nice raffle items that the club takes a loss on.

 

[Antics]

Y

$650/year to Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission just to have an online fish business has sort of soured me. Plus, did you know even hobbyists are supposed to get an Aquaculture Certificate ($100/year) in order to sell frags you propagated yourself??

Yep. Frag swaps and similar events in Florida are a pretty big grey area in terms of legality etc.

 

[Humblefish]

Y

Yep. Frag swaps and similar events in Florida are a pretty big grey area in terms of legality etc.

I wish Fla. would just start charging income tax if they are that strapped for cash. I personally know a guy who got a knock on his door because he didn't charge/pay sales tax for frags he sold.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Have a friend who owed IRS $100,000. IRS caught up to him, took his new car, everything else except clolthes on back. Bummer

 

[Humblefish]

Have a friend who owed IRS $100,000. IRS caught up to him, took his new car, everything else except clolthes on back. Bummer

Back when I did aquarium maintenance, the owner ran afoul with the IRS. They let him keep his business, his house, his van... but most of his profits went back to the IRS. We would start early in the morning on certain days, and he’d be out in the backyard burying cash in mason jars. He once told me it would be like this for the rest of his life, and if he ever quit doing maintenance he would be going to prison.

 

[40B Knasty]

Went to a frag swap that a fish club was holding. It was empty. Maybe about 20 people. Only 2 tables brought "some" middle of the road wants for a coral and the prices were right, but ridiculously high. No one brings 3-5 tanks to setup. Just one 20g tank and in hopes to sell a few zoas with a cheap white light. So there is no pop to the corals.
In a few weeks is Fragtoberfeast. So people save money for that, because there is a ton of venders going all out. Heck I even seen Jason Fox there one year. He only needed 2 tanks. Where you have OSA with four 40 gallon frag tanks. I still go to support any show, but it is the face value of it. $5 down the road from me for the reef club frag swap or $10 an hour and half away. I pick the $10 and the longer drive for the massive variety and nicer corals and to meet new and old acquaintances. My only issue is any coral I have gotten at frag shows. They end up dying. 90% of my corals that are still alive are from Unique Aquaria and Love The Reef. So I have trust issue with frag shows. They cut their frags. Don't let them heal long enough. Glue them to a frag plug and ship them out to be sold the next day.
As for the forums.. Jeez I joined Reef Central. What a joke. I was new to the hobby. It was like trying to sit at the cool kids table at lunch back in school. They snickered like know it alls. I got kicked from there, because I use a Zerowater filter to get .000TDS. Everyone came crashing down on me. Of course I defended myself, because my tank was beast at the time. So they couldn't "accept" any other new way of doing things, but what is protocol. I don't have all the money in the world or a 400g tank. So I was not accepted there. Just rude people. There is a few on here, but very few. I have them muted. So it's cool. At least we have that option.

 

[Antics]

Back when I did aquarium maintenance, the owner ran afoul with the IRS. They let him keep his business, his house, his van... but most of his profits went back to the IRS. We would start early in the morning on certain days, and he’d be out in the backyard burying cash in mason jars. He once told me it would be like this for the rest of his life, and if he ever quit doing maintenance he would be going to prison.

Surely he'd consider bankruptcy before that... o.o

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Surely he'd consider bankruptcy before that... o.o

You can't do bankruptcy with government debt, niether Federal school loans too. Bummer

Death and taxes can't get around them

 

[Antics]

You can't do bankruptcy with government debt, niether Federal school loans too. Bummer

Death and taxes can't get around them

While you're right in a categorical sense it isn't completely accurate. You can discharge both tax debt and student loan debt but it is incredibly difficult to do. For student loan debt you basically have to prove that you're completely incapable of paying it back (like if you become disabled, etc.) and for tax debt you need to be in similar financial disaster and not guilty of tax fraud on the debt in question (which the guy in Humble's example probably is, but still).

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

While you're right in a categorical sense it isn't completely accurate. You can discharge both tax debt and student loan debt but it is incredibly difficult to do. For student loan debt you basically have to prove that you're completely incapable of paying it back (like if you become disabled, etc.) and for tax debt you need to be in similar financial disaster and not guilty of tax fraud on the debt in question (which the guy in Humble's example probably is, but still).

Thanks for sharing , we learn something every day

 

[norfolkgarden]

You're killing me.... Where are you coming up with these "facts"?

Lol, clearly you have not been exposed to the prepper mindset much.

I not talking having 4 weeks worth of can goods and being reasonably prepared for a hurricane for yourself and your Family.

I'm talking about the people who truly hope that the world will fall apart and have small arsenals and 5 gallon buckets of beans and rice, etc. that has all been professionally stored to last 5 years.

 

[Docpayne82]

I think the culture of local clubs is an issue for a lot of people. It's cliquey and there's always someone "who has been reefing for 130 years and knows everything and has tried everything and all this new stuff is garbage designed to take your money" etc. Reef2Reef in general is a much friendlier atmosphere.

This is it in a nutshell! A few years ago I attended a workshop that a local fish club puts on over two days with an auction on the final day. I was really excited to see the speakers and they were great but the attitude of the members was so off putting I decided I would never go back much less join their club. They argued with the speakers, fought with each other, and just showed genuinely childish behavior at the auction. I tried making small talk with multiple members and all but one were just very rude with some outright ignoring me. Last year I joined a bee keeping club in the area and it was a night and day difference in how friendly and inviting they were.

 

[malacoda]

Why should I join a local club, get my butt up off the couch, get in my car, drive 20-40 minutes each way to the meeting, and have to deal with face-to-face interactions with people ... when I can just pop open my laptop and get all the info and 'community' I need while sitting in my pajamas and watching The Big Ban Theory on TV?

I actually am a member of my local club (Go WAMAS!) and enjoy going to club meetings whenever I can make it. Overall though, I think the decline in local clubs simply boils down to convenience.

It's easier - both socially and physically - and less time consuming to turn on a computer than go to a meeting.

Same thing with forums and Facebook.

I personally don't use it much (for privacy reasons). But it's quicker to pop open a new Facebook page and do a quick skim of recent posts/comments in 'snippet' form ... especially if you're already logged on updating your page for the world to see, than it is do a deeper more informative read through forum threads and posts.

People will always drift to convenience.

Just as we'd rather have an Apex turn pumps on and off to do a water change for us rather than lugging buckets around or remembering to do it ourselves, folks will default to a computer login or text message rather than driving to a meeting or talking with someone face-to-face.

Just the nature of change I suppose.

 

[JustaClown]

Howdy Humble. Just my personal opinion, but some forums aren't as user friendly as say, R2R.

If LARC's homepage listed recent threads like R2R, there may be more participation. Maybe, maybe not I guess. I know I'd be a lot more active if we had more NELA members, but it seem like everyone is south of I-10.

I'm just 10 min. north of I-10 but I still like to visit & chat about my fishies.