Why can’t I keep a clam

[NickK]

Post you water parameters please just to compare

Honestly, it’s been October 18 since I’ve checked, but I’d bet a significant digit that it’s Ca 420, Alk 8.2, and Mg 1400. I do weekly water changes and I have Ca and Alk on a doser. My testing kits expired in October and I haven’t bought new ones, but my parameters didn’t change for 2 years before this and I haven’t changed my routine. I’m an engineer, and I’m pretty anal, and I believe in testing and I will again, but my tank has better growth and color than it ever has before.

I know. I used to roll my eyes at nontesters and now I am one.

 

[NickK]

Here’s my last year of testing

 

[DSC reef]

I honestly don't think it's your tank or parameters at all.

 

[NickK]

Were they from LA California, divers den Wisconsin or ORA Florida? The website has 3 locations depending on the section.

I have had poor results repeatedly with divers den, however the ORA from FL have looked great. No experience with the California location.

Generally if a clam dies under 2 weeks it was not healthy or something picked on it. Just FYI I infected my tank with clams from divers den twice now. About 5 years apart, had hoped they solved their issues. Anyway it killed all the other healthy clams I had. Both times. Clam diseases/parasites are not well known so just a heads up it can happen. If you find a healthy clam (PEA is good) QT all new until you see growth!

All were from Divers Den.

I’ve heard good things about Pacific East Aquaculture.

Thanks!

 

[NickK]

Were they from LA California, divers den Wisconsin or ORA Florida? The website has 3 locations depending on the section.

I have had poor results repeatedly with divers den, however the ORA from FL have looked great. No experience with the California location.

Generally if a clam dies under 2 weeks it was not healthy or something picked on it. Just FYI I infected my tank with clams from divers den twice now. About 5 years apart, had hoped they solved their issues. Anyway it killed all the other healthy clams I had. Both times. Clam diseases/parasites are not well known so just a heads up it can happen. If you find a healthy clam (PEA is good) QT all new until you see growth!

All were from Divers Den.

I’ve heard good things about PEA

 

[Huskymaniac]

I wouldn't order from divers den. I am literally 0 for 12 from them. Order directly from the ORA section and I bet your problem will be solved.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

It’s an LA/DD issue not your tank. I sacrificed a divers den clam last year and dissected it when it arrived, the gills were severely atrophied which is a telltale sign of a severe Perkinsus infection. IMO and based on my experiences ordering clams from LA both the quality marine and divers den systems have a systemic issue with Perkinsus. So by the time you receive the clam they are beyond saving and since they never go clam fallow the disease just keeps running like wildfire from shipment to shipment. I will say the ORA direct clams (the ORA tab on the LA homepage NOT divers den ORA clams) are usually good just very small. Also, I just recently ordered from pac east and both clams arrived looking good with new shell growth so we shall see how they do...

The current state of the clam trade is truly unfortunate. 10 years ago you could buy one from basically anywhere and as long as your tank wasn’t completely neglected and had adequate lighting clams were basically unkillable. O and one more thing I almost forgot DO NOT put new clams in with established clams you must quarantine and observe for at least a month. Perkinsus is highly contagious and will infect and kill your existing bivalves with near 100% efficacy. If you have had Perkinsus infected clams there is mixed data on how long of a clam fallow period is needed but most wholesalers are recommending and practicing 30 day fallow periods.

 

[campaign000]

Great job!
Any treatment against Perkinsus?

It’s an LA/DD issue not your tank. I sacrificed a divers den clam last year and dissected it when it arrived, the gills were severely atrophied which is a telltale sign of a severe Perkinsus infection. IMO and based on my experiences ordering clams from LA both the quality marine and divers den systems have a systemic issue with Perkinsus. So by the time you receive the clam they are beyond saving and since they never go clam fallow the disease just keeps running like wildfire from shipment to shipment. I will say the ORA direct clams (the ORA tab on the LA homepage NOT divers den ORA clams) are usually good just very small. Also, I just recently ordered from pac east and both clams arrived looking good with new shell growth so we shall see how they do...

The current state of the clam trade is truly unfortunate. 10 years ago you could buy one from basically anywhere and as long as your tank wasn’t completely neglected and had adequate lighting clams were basically unkillable. O and one more thing I almost forgot DO NOT put new clams in with established clams you must quarantine and observe for at least a month. Perkinsus is highly contagious and will infect and kill your existing bivalves with near 100% efficacy. If you have had Perkinsus infected clams there is mixed data on how long of a clam fallow period is needed but most wholesalers are recommending and practicing 30 day fallow periods.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

Great job!
Any treatment against Perkinsus?

Temp matched rodi dip for 30 min is pretty much it. Some people have also had some success with RODI chlorinated to municipal water standards to give the treatment an extra kick. The one qualifier is the clam has to be healthy enough to recover which often is not the case with DD/LA clams.

 

[DSC reef]

I've never read about using chlorinated water as a dip, have to look into that. I figured that would do more harm than good. Temp and PH matched freshwater dip is what I've read and tried with success against pinched mantle. Definitely agree with having to dip the clam before it's to far gone.

 

[TexasTodd]

Also, often the larger imported Maximas have issues.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

I've never read about using chlorinated water as a dip, have to look into that. I figured that would do more harm than good. Temp and PH matched freshwater dip is what I've read and tried with success against pinched mantle. Definitely agree with having to dip the clam before it's to far gone.

A buddy of mine from college works for a large food company which has successfully used chlorinated water to effectively contain Perkinsus outbreaks in bivalves. It’s a drastic measure for sure and there is very little peer reviewed research on Perkinsus but he directed me to this article awhile back showing freshwater for 10 minutes and chlorine at 300 mg/l may be an effective treatment. The company he works for is also funding multiple ongoing study’s to develop treatment strategies for Perkinsus. The disease costs big food hundreds of millions a year so they have the motivation to figure something out. The scary thing about the attached article is it suggests Perkinsus can survive nearly 200 days in a closed system without a bivalve host. http://shellfish.ifas.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/Perkinsus-Infections-of-Bivalve-Molluscs.pdf

 

[DSC reef]

Very interesting, thank you. I've experienced divers den clams wiping out our system. I'm happy to hear studies are being done. I never thought about the food industry side of it.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

Very interesting, thank you. I've experienced divers den clams wiping out our system. I'm happy to hear studies are being done. I never thought about the food industry side of it.

Ya me too. I have been trying to get a healthy Hippopus for the past 3 years (I am still looking if you find one lol) and ordered one from LA in November against my better knowledge and within 3 weeks it and my previously thriving maxima were empty shells. At this point I really think dedicated clam quarantines with aggressive treatment protocols are going to be a must when adding clams to existing clam systems.

 

[DSC reef]

Ya me too. I have been trying to get a healthy Hippopus for the past 3 years (I am still looking if you find one lol) and ordered one from LA in November against my better knowledge and within 3 weeks it and my previously thriving maxima were empty shells. At this point I really think dedicated clam quarantines with aggressive treatment protocols are going to be a must when adding clams to existing clam systems.

I agree, it was heartbreaking watching thriving clams deteriorate quickly.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

Also, if your looking for research on what’s being explored for treatment of fish and other marine organisms the University of Florida receives huge sums of money from big food to conduct aquaculture research including disease treatment. They sponsored the study I posted here and are actively conducting research on large scale treatment of velvet which is currently ravaging the aquaculture fish industry, especially salmon.

 

[DSC reef]

Also, if your looking for research on what’s being explored for treatment of fish and other marine organisms the University of Florida receives huge sums of money from big food to conduct aquaculture research including disease treatment. They sponsored the study I posted here and are actively conducting research on large scale treatment of velvet which is currently ravaging aquaculture fish industry especially salmon.

Thank you for the info, definitely interested on reading up.

 

[hart24601]

I want to add that in both my cases of clam systems being wiped out my DD clams neither time did they show the classic pinched mantles characteristic of Perkinsus, now being infected with Perkinsus my show other symptoms, but in maybe 20-30 clams none had mantle ruffling, the center part of the mantel bleached, became transparent and in some cases tore along with (in larger clams) mass expulsion of slime. Not saying it wasn't Perkinsus, but sure didn't match the other cases, however it was something bad for sure.

EDIT: And just if anyone is curious my collection consisted of hippo, squammy, derasa, maxima, crocea and teardrop noae so it didn't appear species specific.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

I want to add that in both my cases of clam systems being wiped out my DD clams neither time did they show the classic pinched mantles characteristic of Perkinsus, now being infected with Perkinsus my show other symptoms, but in maybe 20-30 clams none had mantle ruffling, the center part of the mantel bleached, became transparent and in some cases tore along with (in larger clams) mass expulsion of slime. Not saying it wasn't Perkinsus, but sure didn't match the other cases, however it was something bad for sure.

Perkinsus doesn’t always manifest in outward symptoms such as PM or gaping. The article I posted talks about symptom manifestation (or lack thereof) at length. If I had to venture a guess I’d be inclined to say some species of Perkinsus may result in pinched mantle while others may not. Since is it’s so difficult to even diagnose let alone classify exactly which species is causing the death all of this is just speculation and best guesses. However, I think is can be pretty much assumed at this point that Perkinsus sp. is the culprit as the speed of the deaths and symptoms (when they do present) are similar to what is described in research on other bivalves. It is unlikely we will ever get any research specific to tridacna genus bivalves as they are not a major western food source so correlating research from similar species is the best we can hope to go off of unfortunately...

 

[hart24601]

I wonder if running UV in our systems is effective. I see the article says "Ultravioletlight sterilization greater than 28,000(μWs/cm2) is effective against P. marinus, but 60,000 μWs/cm2 is required to kill P. olseni." But I wonder if UV is enough to control mortality if a clam is infected in the system or if small inevitable transmission will still kill the clams no matter the power of the UV we use.