Why cant I get coral growth?

[Buckyfan]

I have a 40 breeder with a 40 breeder sump, a reef octopus in sump skimmer and a n orion SL series 140 wat led light for marine corals. I also have a spectrapure RODI system. I haven't checked the TDS recently, but historically it's been 0-3. My tank is at least 5 years old. Currently it's bare bottom.
My issue is that I've never really been successful at coral growth other that mushrooms. I have 2 Jeabo wp 10 wavemakers and a long narrow one that is less powerful that goes along the back of the tank ( can't remember what that one is ). I was just trying to keep dead spots from happening. I switched to bare bottom due to too much algae. I do have my led's turned down to less than 50 % for the same reason ( algae). they are on for about 8 hours, heavy on blue. I have had some success with mushrooms, candy cane corals, green hammer etc, but I cant even grow green star polyp or zoas. They don't die right away, they just fade. I have some coraline algea but it doesn't seem to be spreading. I dip the corals before they go in the tank. I have maybe 15# of rock, 75% of which has been in the tank for years. I get algae on my dry rock ( I think turf algae ) that's relatively new but not on my older rock. I get algae on my glass every 5-7 days. I don't and never have dosed anything. I only have one clownfish. That's it currently, nothing else. I change water every 7-14 days 10 %. I use reef crystals.
My parameters
ph 8.3
kh8.4
nitrate 3
ca 400
mg 1600+
posphate ( hanna checker ) 0 not sure how I get algae with zero phosphates

Any thoughts on why I can't grow coral? More light? less flow? If I turn my lights way up I just get more algae. I'd just be happy with zoas and green star polyp for now. I seemed to have better success when I had no experience with a new tank with sand.
Thanks

 

[shakacuz]

lower your mag to around 1400, and raise calcium to about 450-500.

and of course raise your po4 to roughly .03-.05. you are showing 0 po4 because it’s in the algae

 

[outhouse]

Any thoughts on why I can't grow coral?

Almost quit over the same issue once I switched to leds and lost all growth

TURN YOUR LIGHT DOWN!

to high of intensity does not bleach coral, as much as just stop all growth.

I turned my leds down to 8% blue and 2% white and all growth came back and everything is growing like weeds again.

 

[outhouse]

 

[outhouse]

 

[ZoWhat]

Might be worth the $50 to send off an ICP and look at metals like Aluminum.

I'm sending off my first ICP test for this reason bc I have a ton of zoas palys that should be growing like fools but aren't.

Nothings dying but definitely no where close to the population growth I saw in 2019 into 2020

I suspect some kind of metal or contaminate has made it way in my water column

 

[outhouse]

More light?

Turn your lights down to 10% B and 2% W and give it a try. add just enough white to give your tank the color you find most pleasing so you can go 1% to 4% to adjust from 10k to 14k to 20k

 

[Buckyfan]

Almost quit over the same issue once I switched to leds and lost all growth

TURN YOUR LIGHT DOWN!

to high of intensity does not bleach coral, as much as just stop all growth.

I turned my leds down to 8% blue and 2% white and all growth came back and everything is growing like weeds again.

Interesting. I will definitely try that. I just assumed they were too low.

 

[outhouse]

Interesting. I will definitely try that. I just assumed they were too low.

I did to for 5 years or so. tank went to hell. all of what you see in the pics is new growth at 8% blue. I turned them down until it looked much dimmer, that is what the coral loves.

AT 50% I was cooking mine and slowly raised it up, just making things worse.

I also had algae issues. Now after fluconazole and using vibrant, you see the results.

Now thats 8% in a 30 inch deep 210G tank with lights 8" over water.

 

[Buckyfan]

Turn your lights down to 10% B and 2% W and give it a try. add just enough white to give your tank the color you find most pleasing so you can go 1% to 4% to adjust from 10k to 14k to 20k

Will do!

 

[Buckyfan]

I did to for 5 years or so. tank went to hell. all of what you see in the pics is new growth at 8% blue. I turned them down until it looked much dimmer, that is what the coral loves.

AT 50% I was cooking mine and slowly raised it up, just making things worse.

I also had algae issues. Now after fluconazole and using vibrant, you see the results.

Now thats 8% in a 30 inch deep 210G tank with lights 8" over water.

That at least gives me somewhere to start. I never would've turned then down that much. Thanks

 

[outhouse]

That at least gives me somewhere to start. I never would've turned then down that much. Thanks

Same here. Think about this, you want coral reaching for the light, that is when they grow.

Cloudy days happen for weeks in nature, and coral still grows. Reefers do not have a long time with LEDS so if you have powerful lights, there are no good resources out there, just a bunch of sales people trying to out power the next guy when its not about power. Its not rocket science.

I used to grow coral professionally using MH and VHO for 25 years and just switched to leds. Its why so many people have threads like my kessils wont grow anything! and ive heard it from all brands. LPS does not need huge amounts of par. Your lights are all 3w led chips, and a 40g tank not that deep, so you learned the hard way like I did. good news is this stuff grows like weeds once you get lighting organized. After 3 months I went to 10% and so far so good. You to can always raise them, but I think you will see good growth after a few weeks

 

[Buckyfan]

Same here. Think about this, you want coral reaching for the light, that is when they grow.

Cloudy days happen for weeks in nature, and coral still grows. Reefers do not have a long time with LEDS so if you have powerful lights, there are no good resources out there, just a bunch of sales people trying to out power the next guy when its not about power. Its not rocket science.

I used to grow coral professionally using MH and VHO for 25 years and just switched to leds. Its why so many people have threads like my kessils wont grow anything! and ive heard it from all brands. LPS does not need huge amounts of par. Your lights are all 3w led chips, and a 40g tank not that deep, so you learned the hard way like I did. good news is this stuff grows like weeds once you get lighting organized. After 3 months I went to 10% and so far so good. You to can always raise them, but I think you will see good growth after a few weeks

Awesome, I can't wait to see if it works. I was also thinking about throwing in the towel or going fish only rather than keep killing coral, but I really want a coral tank

 

[ZoWhat]

Awesome, I can't wait to see if it works. I was also thinking about throwing in the towel or going fish only rather than keep killing coral, but I really want a coral tank

Areas you need to research and master skills at:

Lighting - I agree that corals need a lot less light than what's programmed in LEDs. Take a LED and sit it sideways on a table shining on your face with your eyes closed. At 50% it's cooking your face. Now imagine you're a LPS coral from 30 feet of water from a wild reef. Plz pass the Sunblock lotion bruh

Flow - gotta realize ppl usually overdo this as well. I'm all about volume turnaround, but straight up flow blowing across your coral needs to be light or less for LPS. Flow might look cool.flowing around to the human eye but you're IRRITATING the coral like a nerdy friend poking you with his finger all the time (to the point where you wanna punch your pokey friend in the nose). An expert level is to point your return water so it hits a glass wall inside your tank. Keep the return pressure high for volume turnover but deflecting itself inside the tank so as to NOT cause a lot of flow ON OR OVER CORALS. DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT

Elements - if you stay in range on those calc, alk and mag #s and refresh trace elements thru WCs, you're good

Nutrients - were talking staying on top of no3 and po4 #s. No3 I like to hover around 10 for LPS. Po4 around 0.2. Some ppl are into ultra low nutrients with ZEROs across the board. But not best practices for LPS. Yhey need a lil no3/po4 in their life. Good skimmer, feed kess / appropriate amts, filter sock change 2x a week, WCs and testing no3 and po4, all great practices.

The UNWANTEDs - gotta master looking out for unwanted things like pests/bugs/parasites, metals getting into water, polyp-nipping fish behind your back, electricity in the water with faulty pumps, heaters, equip, ...containments on your hands (soap, oil, lotions)....etc

Hth

 

[Buckyfan]

Phosphates have always been a little confusing to me. I know I have them because I have algae but they're not reading on my Hanna checker. Maybe just because I have only one fish but how do I raise my phosphate a bit in the face of having algae on my dry Rock and glass without turning it into a mess? Feed more? Skim less? Or do I just assume they are higher than what they read because I'm getting algae? I don't want to create an algae problem purposely. Maybe decreasing my lights will take care of that problem.

 

[fish farmer]

Do you have any CUC? That would help with taking care of algae if you boost feed to increase nutrients, provided you aren't going to add another fish or two.

I too have very little measured nitrates and phosphates in a 29 gallon, when they were high 30 ppm nat and 1ppm phos, my softies did fine and one LPS, I did have lots of GHA as well. Anything else died over time. I agree with the above, get the cal up and the mg down. I usually have mine around 420 to 450 and Mg usually around NSW levels or slightly above, alk around 8. I dose kalk and coralline grows everywhere. I do have a refuge with chaeto and my skimmer is run on the dry side.

I was running my tank with one LED strip around 75%, 14,000K. It did fine for a long time, but the sides of my tank weren't growing corals so I put on two T5s for even coverage. Things seemed to be growing great, but have also turned things down on both fixtures since some corals are growing different than before. It's a challenge with a small tank and growing softies, LPS and SPS.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I know I have them because I have algae but they're not reading on my Hanna checker.

algae consumes phosphate as a food source, so if you have algae, your tests will show very low phosphates level.

 

[OrchidMiss]

Holy Hammers, Batman!

 

[Buckyfan]

algae consumes phosphate as a food source, so if you have algae, your tests will show very low phosphates level.

Right, but I guess what I'm wondering then is, do I really need to increase my phosphate to a readable level on Hanna since I know I have it given the algae. You know what I mean?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Sorry to confuse, it is 2 seperate issues in your thread. The first thing is that if you have algae, your nutrients are not in control, so you need to control by reducing phosphate import (and increase phosphate export)

Next issue, to grow corals, you need some phosphate, it cannot be 0.

thats why the conflicting advice for phosphate. These are 2 helpful articles explaining why we need phosphate, and how to export it if you have too much of it.

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Nutrient Export – Old Problem, New Solutions

By Pedro Nuno Ferreira Health and well being are strongly influenced by environmental conditions. In humans, one can take examples of large scale epidemics,

reefs.com