Why can't I keep chalices alive?

[bct15]

I have always had a problem keeping chalices alive and would like to know from the experts why. I have had three chalices total, two wild colonies that were mostly red with other color streaking and a purple with green eyes frag. The purple with green eyes frag is still alive but has gone through several recession episodes and is about the same size as when I bought it three years ago. The two red wild colonies both start off great but after about a month each one started slowly receding from the edges in and over a two month period until they are gone. I have a mixed reef with zoas, sps, and every other type of lps except I never owned a scoly. The two red chalices that died were purchased several months apart and were not in the tank at the same time. I feed them once a week when they show feeders but the second one to recede has never shown feeders and there is still two eyes on it now but does not look good. I keep them in the sand. Here are some tank parameters

Around 260 gallon total.
I use red sea coral pro salt, switched from IO reef crystals about a year ago.
PH 8.2
SG 1.024-1.025
Alk ~ 9
Calcium ~ 400
Mag ~ 1400
Nitrates > 20ppm
Phosphates ?
Temp ~ 79
2 x 250 watt mh
2 x 80 w ATI blue+
Skimmer on 24/7 h&s external skimmer for up to 300 gallons, maybe fills the cup once a month.
I used to use a calcium reactor but it was noisy and problematic so I recently switched to brs two part but seem to need a lot. Each pump is running for just over two hours a day broken into 5 intervals.

I do weekly 15-20 gal water changes, change out a cup of gfo and rox carbon with each water change but am about to start changing biweekly on carbon and gfo I think because I think in changin to often and not exhausting the media.


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[cymaster007]

Could be not enough light or flow- any pics of the tank & coral recession?

 

[KatyEnochs]

What do they look like before they start to recede? Are they bleaching and receding, browning and receding?


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[bct15]

Could be not enough light or flow- any pics of the tank & coral recession?

Flow is two mp40 turned up to the max on reefcrest mode, I can grow sps and whatever else at the bottom of the tank.


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[bct15]

What do they look like before they start to recede? Are they bleaching and receding, browning and receding?


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They look colorful and normal, just receding from the outside in. What I mean is the skeleton starts to show at the edge, then slowly more and more skeleton shows. If I were to cut the skeleton parts off they would look like normal colorful chalices.


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[always reefin]

what are your phosphates?

 

[larangcon]

I don't have any chalice and also would like to know the placement and flow requirement to grow these out.

 

[Aquaph8]

Mine do the same in my low nutrient full blown SPS tank. I assume it's one of three things. 1) too much light, 2) too much flow, 3) not enough food in the water column. I'm following along though, would live to hear the thoughts of some chalice keepers on this.

 

[always reefin]

Mine do the same in my low nutrient full blown SPS tank. I assume it's one of three things. 1) too much light, 2) too much flow, 3) not enough food in the water column. I'm following along though, would live to hear the thoughts of some chalice keepers on this.

Could also be not enough light

 

[CORALMECHANIC]

Tagging along...

 

[KatyEnochs]

I have probably 15 different colonies of chalices, but am still no expert by any means. I have found though that chalices do seem to need some phosphates (.05 or so) and do need some nutrients in the water, so your gfo change of once a week is A LOT, unless you are feeding your tank constantly!!!! You might have depleted all of the nutrients not allowing them to grow. I have found that lighting problems can usually be identified by a color change of the chalice first and then receding.


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[always reefin]

I have probably 15 different colonies of chalices, but am still no expert by any means. I have found though that chalices do seem to need some phosphates (.05 or so) and do need some nutrients in the water, so your gfo change of once a week is A LOT, unless you are feeding your tank constantly!!!! You might have depleted all of the nutrients not allowing them to grow. I have found that lighting problems can usually be identified by a color change of the chalice first and then receding.


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water too clean can be a big problem

 

[always reefin]

I have probably 15 different colonies of chalices, but am still no expert by any means. I have found though that chalices do seem to need some phosphates (.05 or so) and do need some nutrients in the water, so your gfo change of once a week is A LOT, unless you are feeding your tank constantly!!!! You might have depleted all of the nutrients not allowing them to grow. I have found that lighting problems can usually be identified by a color change of the chalice first and then receding.


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phosphates .05 too high in my opinion. target .01

 

[KatyEnochs]

phosphates .05 too high in my opinion. target .01

.01 is basically one pellet of gfo away from 0, and that's too low. So aiming for the .05 is not too high by any means. I have had chalices growing in 1.65 phosphates... Yea you read that right 1.65, not 0.165..... While this is obviously not something anyone should try lol and I realized my slacking of gfo caught up to me, it was done. Most literature says .1 is what starts to affect coral growth, so that's the same philosophy why I wouldn't say to try and keep your phosphates at .09, because your way to close for being out of the "green zone" so stick with aiming for .05 and you can afford to have a little wiggle room.


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[always reefin]

.01 is basically one pellet of gfo away from 0, and that's too low. So aiming for the .05 is not too high by any means. I have had chalices growing in 1.65 phosphates... Yea you read that right 1.65, not 0.165..... While this is obviously not something anyone should try lol and I realized my slacking of gfo caught up to me, it was done. Most literature says .1 is what starts to affect coral growth, so that's the same philosophy why I wouldn't say to try and keep your phosphates at .09, because your way to close for being out of the "green zone" so stick with aiming for .05 and you can afford to have a little wiggle room.




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no offense....I disagree from experience. corals do not like phosphates, period! it can also affect color. the closer to .01 and maintain it the better

 

[KatyEnochs]

no offense....I disagree from experience. corals do not like phosphates, period!

That's fine, my experience has been otherwise, except for Sps, which even the slightest amount of phosphates can make a huge difference. That is why mixed reefs can be so challenging, itS impossible to keep everyone in "perfect conditions"


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[KLR]

How do you acclimate them? Also, do you have pictures of your chalices and information on where you placed them. In my experience, like many other corals, placement is keen with chalices. If you give a certain species of chalice too much flow it will die fast just as another species may die because it is not in direct flow.

 

[always reefin]

phosphates also feeds algae, which causes all kinds of problems

 

[KatyEnochs]

phosphates also feeds algae, which causes all kinds of problems

Obviously. I will just also point out that your opinion in slightly contradicting itself. You said corals don't like phosphates period! But to maintain it at .01... ?

Though it is regardless, there are many ways to keep a successful reef tank. No one way is right, i mean some ways are completely wrong lol, but it comes down to try and see what works for you.


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[always reefin]

Obviously. I will just also point out that your opinion in slightly contradicting itself. You said corals don't like phosphates period! But to maintain it at .01... ?

Though it is regardless, there are many ways to keep a successful reef tank. No one way is right, i mean some ways are completely wrong lol, but it comes down to try and see what works for you.


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Hilarious! Contradicting? Really? .01 is very close to zero last I checked. Come on, I did say 'no offense" geez...lol.