Why cant u keep sps?

[LARedstickreefer]

Well it’s been 2 months for this thread now so has anyone noticed significant improvement by switching to zeoVit?? Challenges?? Losses??

My dormant frags are encrusting their bases, colors “keeping”, and my algae has all but vanished.

Edit: And one of my corals is pretty much looking like an Angry Birds acro.

 

[sgrosenb]

I started dosing zeovit bak and sponge and some bacteria from algaebarn a few weeks ago. too soon to tell. I also ordered 40lbs of live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater - expected to be delivered in about a month. I'm hoping that will really be the key, rather than this bottled bacteria... but who knows. Scroll back a page or two on this thread and you'll see Im the one trying to grow SPS starting with all dead rock and sand... not going so well this far and Im 15 months in

 

[Rick5]

I started dosing zeovit bak and sponge and some bacteria from algaebarn a few weeks ago. too soon to tell. I also ordered 40lbs of live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater - expected to be delivered in about a month. I'm hoping that will really be the key, rather than this bottled bacteria... but who knows. Scroll back a page or two on this thread and you'll see Im the one trying to grow SPS starting with all dead rock and sand... not going so well this far and Im 15 months in

Good move on the live rock. If memory serves, Tampa Bay Saltwater has vats of dry rock that are basically sitting in the ocean and they ship the rocks submerged in bags of water. Same place, right?

 

[sgrosenb]

Good move on the live rock. If memory serves, Tampa Bay Saltwater has vats of dry rock that are basically sitting in the ocean and they ship the rocks submerged in bags of water. Same place, right?

Yep. I'm lucky enough to live 2hrs away so I'm going to run up and pick it up when it's ready. My understanding is that its fully submerged in salt water 100% of the time with very little die off. I'm kicking myself for not at least starting with some seed live rock in my system, even 25% or so. All my parameters have been near perfect for almost a year now and I'm still killing SPS... hopefully the live rock is the key

 

[Rick5]

Yep. I'm lucky enough to live 2hrs away so I'm going to run up and pick it up when it's ready. My understanding is that its fully submerged in salt water 100% of the time with very little die off. I'm kicking myself for not at least starting with some seed live rock in my system, even 25% or so. All my parameters have been near perfect for almost a year now and I'm still killing SPS... hopefully the live rock is the key

I hear you. I think it took me ~2 years to be able to sustain SPS in my current tank (which utilizes dry rock). I experienced a recent downturn in color (due to my own stupidity of not replacing my Hanna PO4 reagents) and it was almost refreshing to have inadvertently messed something up that I could tangibly point to in terms of cause and effect (and therefore could remedy easily) unlike the dry rock saga, which had me guessing and confused for some time.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

My dormant frags are encrusting their bases, colors “keeping”, and my algae has all but vanished.

Edit: And one of my corals is pretty much looking like an Angry Birds acro.

I hate good news that’s followed by bad news

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I hate good news that’s followed by bad news

Then how about this? My WD looks like it’s actually a HW now.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Then how about this? My WD looks like it’s actually a HW now.

Dang
You can’t catch a break bro

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Dang
You can’t catch a break bro

1st world problems.

 

[JCOLE]

Well it’s been 2 months for this thread now so has anyone noticed significant improvement by switching to zeoVit?? Challenges?? Losses??

I did not switch to Zeovit. However, I have battled with a tank imbalance after dosing Vibrant for a month and then Chemiclean about 4 months ago. Dino's kicked in and the tank seemed off. I started dosing Microbacter7 about 4 weeks ago along with Carbon dosing and feeding heavier. Honestly, my tank hasn't looked better and I swear I am getting new growth everyday. So far I am sold!!!!

I have always pushed bacteria and non sterile systems. However, this will be my staple going forward.

That is the tip to success I believe. HEAVY IN AND HEAVY OUT. If you have a strong biological filter with Biomes and Enzymes then it will naturally balance everything out.

 

[dank reefer]

I am still on pg 18 of this thread, but want to ask a question about all this bacteria talk. If your tank is growing SPS with out any other form of bacteria dosing, why continue doing water changes? If you tank is thriving and growing all types of coral under the sun, then your tank should have a good amount of bacteria in it without the need to having to does Blue bottle, blue pill, and so on. Won't performing weekly, bi-weekly, monthly water water changes remove the beneficial bacteria out?

I am not a scientist, and don't pretend to be one. But to me, after your tank has matured in the sense that you CAN grow corals (SPS especially), then water changes are no longer needed as long as you have the means to export out no3, and po4.

Now to continue reading this thread.

 

[AquaBiomics]

regarding water changes...

I try to distinguish between the kind of microbes (the community) and the amount of microbes (microbial cells per volume). Here I'll focus on the former.

We know that large water changes change the bacterial community in an aquarium.

Aquarium Microbiome Response to Ninety-Percent System Water Change: Clues to Microbiome Management - PMC

The bacterial community composition and structure of water from an established teleost fish system was examined before, during and after a major water change to explore the impact of such a water-change disturbance on the stability of the aquarium ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And we know that routine maintenance typically does not disrupt the bacterial community.

Microbial Community Succession and Nutrient Cycling Responses following Perturbations of Experimental Saltwater Aquaria

Although aquaria are common features of homes and other buildings, little is known about how environmental perturbations (i.e., tank cleaning, water changes, addition of habitat features) impact the diversity and succession of aquarium microbial communities. In this study, we sought to evaluate...

msphere.asm.org

So I would argue that overall, typical water changes as practiced by most aquarists pose little risk to disrupting the kinds of microbes living in the tank.

The amount of microbes is a related and probably also an important question but it seems to me we have fewer data on the subject. It seems to me that the amount will be mainly determined by the type and amount of nutrients present (of which we measure only a few, at best), and to some extent by what types of microbes are present. So my expectation would be that as long as nutrients remain reasonably stable then bacterial levels probably rebound pretty quickly after the water change. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find any actual data on the subject.

 

[ycnibrc]

I am still on pg 18 of this thread, but want to ask a question about all this bacteria talk. If your tank is growing SPS with out any other form of bacteria dosing, why continue doing water changes? If you tank is thriving and growing all types of coral under the sun, then your tank should have a good amount of bacteria in it without the need to having to does Blue bottle, blue pill, and so on. Won't performing weekly, bi-weekly, monthly water water changes remove the beneficial bacteria out?

I am not a scientist, and don't pretend to be one. But to me, after your tank has matured in the sense that you CAN grow corals (SPS especially), then water changes are no longer needed as long as you have the means to export out no3, and po4.

Now to continue reading this thread.

the question is do you have adequate amount of bacteria in your system without supplement it. The bacteria are floating in your water and it get consume by coral , also it get skim out by your skimmer. depends on your coral population and your skimmer your bacteria population might not be enough if you don't supplement them. If all we need is to seed the bacteria and let it populate and our tank will be fine then that's a perfect scenario but in real life bacteria get eaten, skim and die off and the way with minimum aquascape less rock more corals doesn't help.

 

[greg 45]

I have held back and watched this thread for some time . Every tank needs to be treated individually. I have been on a bacteria kick for years trying to find the one for my system. I have always had stable parameters with different strains of algae . Not going to go into names but they all cleared up one mess and created another mess. There is bacteria in all tank good and bad they compete daily . Some grow with light and some lights off. I have converted over to zeo dosing as Anthony recommended. I had to adjust my alk twice , reason being sps starting to consume it. My other thought dosing product daily seems to be the key. Other products state x amount of ml a week . Can you imagine taking a whole bottle of nyquil to kill a cold. I am 17 days in on a 1200 gallon system . Don't knock something till you try it . I am sure you spent more money on 1 frag . I do need to thank Anthony for the help and advice.

 

[SeaDweller]

report back later, he's not wrong in offering his advice, he's seeing what the common thread is. There's too many variables in what makes a tank successful, so if all else has failed, whats trying one last thing gonna hurt?

 

[dank reefer]

I didn't mean my post to across in a negative way at all. I believe that bacteria is needed in all life forms to survive, good and bad. But I guess my thinking was is if bacteria is I'm the water, would the constant water changes strip it out unless your replacing with NSW. Does store bought salt have bacteria to replenish your tank?

 

[ycnibrc]

I didn't mean my post to across in a negative way at all. I believe that bacteria is needed in all life forms to survive, good and bad. But I guess my thinking was is if bacteria is I'm the water, would the constant water changes strip it out unless your replacing with NSW. Does store bought salt have bacteria to replenish your tank?

The bacteria multiple them self but they need place to populate. My point with new tank style is less rock and more corals which mean less space for bacteria to populate. Years ago we pack our tank 1lb of live rock per gallon. Now the tank has much less rock than before therefore it has less area for bacteria to populate. In the beginning most tank do ok with frags but after 9 months to a year then it start to have problem. Base on that observation if all parameters are good and stable then I can suggest that your corals are consuming more bacteria than your tank can populate. By not adding more the population is slowly decline causing problems

 

[Tanggy]

HEAVY IN AND HEAVY OUT.

Sorry to be ignorant . I've am relatively new to reefing (tank is 2 years old). Obviously "HEAVY IN" means heavy/more feeding. How do most of you guys perform "HEAVY OUT": VIA more water change or use of carbon dosing (such as NOPOx or ZeoStart). Sorry for the newbie question.

 

[ycnibrc]

Sorry to be ignorant . I've am relatively new to reefing (tank is 2 years old). Obviously "HEAVY IN" means heavy/more feeding. How do most of you guys perform "HEAVY OUT": VIA more water change or use of carbon dosing (such as NOPOx or ZeoStart). Sorry for the newbie question.

Heavy out can be skimming, water change , bacteria , algae, corals anything that consume phosphate and nitrates and organics waste.

 

[JCOLE]

Sorry to be ignorant . I've am relatively new to reefing (tank is 2 years old). Obviously "HEAVY IN" means heavy/more feeding. How do most of you guys perform "HEAVY OUT": VIA more water change or use of carbon dosing (such as NOPOx or ZeoStart). Sorry for the newbie question.

Good question. Yes, heavy in is feeding more to raise nutrients. Heavy out is means of exporting the nutrients by means of the following,

Water change
Natural filtration - Macro Algae, Mangroves, etc in a refugium
Skimmer
Bacteria - Bacteria will help with eating waste/detritus which in return feed your corals. Carbon dosing helps feed and establish bacteria population

Phosguard, GFO, etc are other means of exporting nutrients. I do not use these as I prefer a more natural method. However, I will use them if they get too high.