Why cant u keep sps?

Graffiti Spot · Aug 27, 2020

I am at 150ml of vinegar and maybe 15ml of vodka daily in 100 gallons of water. I am slowly adding more vodka back to the mix. I didn’t like just using vinegar as much, it was ok for a while but seemed to slowly stop working like it had a limit or something, I dunno.

AcroFan144 · Aug 28, 2020

I have decided to throw away all the dry rock, and get fresh, new live rock. I am tired of this uphill battle I’ve had since using dry rock.

In my previous tank, I used all live rock and had more success, while having less experience and lower quality equipment. And to be honest, I dont want to wait another 6-12 months to be able to keep SPS.

Would you still suggest dosing bacteria, even with all new live rock?

ycnibrc · Aug 28, 2020

AcroFan144 said:
I have decided to throw away all the dry rock, and get fresh, new live rock. I am tired of this uphill battle I’ve had since using dry rock.

In my previous tank, I used all live rock and had more success, while having less experience and lower quality equipment. And to be honest, I dont want to wait another 6-12 months to be able to keep SPS.

Would you still suggest dosing bacteria, even with all new live rock?

For now Not necessarily however in the future u might need to replenish when your corals grow bigger. if the rate of consuming is more than reproduction then it could make it unbalanced

MnFish1 · Aug 28, 2020

ycnibrc said:
Bacteria do grow however they get skim, die off and eating by Coral. My experience with older tank sometime have mysterious crash I suspect the reason why is the amount of the bacteria has exceeded by the amount of dieing off, eaten and consume. Back in the old day we use to call it old tank syndrome

I am probably back in the day further than you

... But - I agree - tanks tend to become less diverse over time. my problem with 'adding bacteria' - is that a number of studies have suggested that 1 of 2 things happens - either the new bacteria take over and the old ones are killed - OR - the old established bacteria remain established - and the new bacteria die off - resulting in a similar issue. thats why I think a study of added bacteria as compared to bacteria present in the tank might be interesting,

ycnibrc · Aug 28, 2020

MnFish1 said:
I am probably back in the day further than you... But - I agree - tanks tend to become less diverse over time. my problem with 'adding bacteria' - is that a number of studies have suggested that 1 of 2 things happens - either the new bacteria take over and the old ones are killed - OR - the old established bacteria remain established - and the new bacteria die off - resulting in a similar issue. thats why I think a study of added bacteria as compared to bacteria present in the tank might be interesting,

Since I'm only a hobbyist which mean I can only learn by observation. The way nowadays reef tank set up is lacking of the diversity of microorganisms and bacteria from the live rock. So many tank has similar symptoms of perfect parameters, flow, light etc but struckling to keep Sps. Base on what I know before and comparing to now the only missing piece is the biological side of the microorganisms and bacteria in the tank. But without scientific evidence I can't definitely saying with 100% confirmation it's just my theory base on what I observed.
Reefing is trial and error to learn from it we need to open to all possibility.

MnFish1 · Aug 28, 2020

ycnibrc said:
Since I'm only a hobbyist which mean I can only learn by observation. The way nowadays reef tank set up is lacking of the diversity of microorganisms and bacteria from the live rock. So many tank has similar symptoms of perfect parameters, flow, light etc but struckling to keep Sps. Base on what I know before and comparing to now the only missing piece is the biological side of the microorganisms and bacteria in the tank. But without scientific evidence I can't definitely saying with 100% confirmation it's just my theory base on what I observed.
Reefing is trial and error to learn from it we need to open to all possibility.

I just wanted to make you aware that there is a testing service that measures all of the different bacteria in your tank. It tells you how diverse your bacterial population is (its available to hobbyists. So - it would be interesting to see whether the bacteria in your supplements are the same as the bacteria in your tank. So - it would be easy to get an answer - without 'trial and error' - the name of the person who owns the company is @AquaBiomics just fyi -

Coralville · Aug 31, 2020

sgrosenb said:
Mostly the life on it, but also the size of rocks. TBS had a great reputation but it was unquestionable that KP, in my one experience, had wayyyyy more life and better rock sizes. I was actually pretty disappointed in TBS. just a bunch of really big rocks that had minimal life. KP had tons of sponges, fearherdusters, etc etc. and their rocks were all different sizes which was great for my aquascape. I know others have had better experiences with TBS so maybe mine was just unique.

Did you have the rock from KP aquatics shipped in water?

sgrosenb · Aug 31, 2020

Coralville said:
Did you have the rock from KP aquatics shipped in water?

I live in FL so I met him and drove it back home. But he will ship it in water. not cheap but very high quality.

Coralville · Aug 31, 2020

sgrosenb said:
I live in FL so I met him and drove it back home. But he will ship it in water. not cheap but very high quality.

Thanks for the info!

csb123 · Aug 31, 2020

AcroFan144 said:
I have decided to throw away all the dry rock, and get fresh, new live rock. I am tired of this uphill battle I’ve had since using dry rock.

In my previous tank, I used all live rock and had more success, while having less experience and lower quality equipment. And to be honest, I dont want to wait another 6-12 months to be able to keep SPS.

Would you still suggest dosing bacteria, even with all new live rock?

I agree, dead rock I feel is why it takes new tanks 2+ years to become stable, let alone “mature”.
I read some post and experiments from @AquaBiomics and he presents very interesting ideas about the reef microbiome. The importance of microbiomes through out nature are only recently being understood and appreciated. In medicine, we’re giving stool transplants, for goodness sake.

I’ve suffered no end in troubles, starting with dry rock, plus 4 different bacteria additives. Only 4 years later, do I feel I’m in control, and can focus on fine tuning, esthetics, culturing live foods, etc.

I feel the nitrifying bacteria additives, like MB7, are good for jump starting your filtration. But otherwise, are fairly useless to establish an ocean like ecology. At tree farm is entirely different than a forest.

My plan is to supercharge my microbiome with fresh, wet, live sand and mud. And do this periodically, as biodiversity declines in time, in a closed system.

Acroalan · Sep 1, 2020

When starting my current tank last winter I used dry rock but added Live Sand Activator and Wonder Mud from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms, along with some of their other worm packs and such. I wonder how this compares to seeding dry rock with some true live rock for providing diversity? Anyone have any experiences?

ScottB · Sep 1, 2020

Acroalan said:
When starting my current tank last winter I used dry rock but added Live Sand Activator and Wonder Mud from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms, along with some of their other worm packs and such. I wonder how this compares to seeding dry rock with some true live rock for providing diversity? Anyone have any experiences?

Tell us your experience with this diversity method. Sounds interesting.

PegasisR · Sep 2, 2020

What about the people who can't get fresh live rock? I live in canada and it's a crap shoot to source. I've got t5 lighting, alkatronic, awc and will be putting a carx online soon. But still im dealing with sps frags going downhill even though the tanks been running for 3 and 1/2yrs. Its getting really frustrating and I would do anything for a taste of success.

sgrosenb · Sep 2, 2020

PegasisR said:
What about the people who can't get fresh live rock? I live in canada and it's a crap shoot to source. I've got t5 lighting, alkatronic, awc and will be putting a carx online soon. But still im dealing with sps frags going downhill even though the tanks been running for 3 and 1/2yrs. Its getting really frustrating and I would do anything for a taste of success.

Maybe try to get some from a local reefer or local fish store? I'm surprised there isn't anyone that will ship to Canada in water but maybe there are rules about that internationally.

PegasisR · Sep 2, 2020

sgrosenb said:
Maybe try to get some from a local reefer or local fish store? I'm surprised there isn't anyone that will ship to Canada in water but maybe there are rules about that internationally.

Apparently there are some restrictions interms of getting the permits... aswell local reefers here probably wouldn't have it, being that if their tank is thriving im sure they're not tearing it down to sell

PegasisR · Sep 3, 2020

If I sent the live rock to the boarder would I be able to get it over or would that be an issue?

MnFish1 · Sep 3, 2020

PegasisR said:
If I sent the live rock to the boarder would I be able to get it over or would that be an issue?

In 3 months - dead rock becomes 'live rock' - if you've added something from the ocean to the tank - this always seems to be an issue - I'm not sure it is. Lots of people have very successful reef tanks - with dead rock - you can check out my build thread for an example.

PegasisR · Sep 3, 2020

MnFish1 said:
In 3 months - dead rock becomes 'live rock' - if you've added something from the ocean to the tank - this always seems to be an issue - I'm not sure it is. Lots of people have very successful reef tanks - with dead rock - you can check out my build thread for an example.

Your tank looks great

but what about that added micro fauna and diversity? Did you add anything to increase diversity?