Why did i return / sell my trident?

[FlyPenFly]

$200/year for automated 4x daily alk checks, and 2x daily Ca/mg is a price I would HAPPILY pay for. That’s actually far cheaper than my Hannah checker if I were to use it that often. Not to mention, my time and livestock cost far far more than $200/year.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

It is impossible if using Trident Controlled Dosing to have any issue of over supply to the tank. I think no one should count on any single piece of equipment - and, as was the case in the thread you posted above - you sometimes have to trust your gut and double check when readings seem strange. How many times does this happen on refractometers, for instance.

The Trident alone cannot crash your system any more than an old or improperly used test kit can. There is certainly no more incidence of Trident users crashing their tanks than there are customers using traditional testing methods - in fact i would suggest the opposite is likely more true.

But, this is the beauty of this hobby, many ways to get to the same results, either up or down

Thank you for the information. It is true, you should never count on any single piece of equipment.

 

[burningmime]

$200/year for automated 4x daily alk checks, and 2x daily Ca/mg is a price I would HAPPILY pay for. That’s actually far cheaper than my Hannah checker if I were to use it that often. Not to mention, my time and livestock cost far far more than $200/year.

Which is why I said it's fair. But it's still a lot more than DIY reagent for Kh Director or Alkatronic, which can be had from Home Depot. Also $200/year is ideal assuming you use up every reagent bottle, never need to recalibrate, and keep a low Kh. Can anyone with Trident experience say if the 6 months reagents actually last 6 months?

 

[User1]

Which is why I said it's fair. But it's still a lot more than DIY reagent for Kh Director or Alkatronic, which can be had from Home Depot. Also $200/year is ideal assuming you use up every reagent bottle, never need to recalibrate, and keep a low Kh. Can anyone with Trident experience say if the 6 months reagents actually last 6 months?

Yes, Alkatronic has a DIY solution. Can it do Ca and MG? If not then it really isn't a direct comparison. This is a similar issue a lot are having when trying to bring it down to a cost per test. Price of entry, maintenance, reagents, probes, reference fluid, etc. At least here the MS had it somewhat simpler with their single disc. Not apples to apples so it is a bit of a challenge.

Of course one will use up every reagent bottle as they are a set. There will be left over for one or two reasons. How much reagents are used to test and overfill. Each bottle has extra to allocate for calibration.

You only calibrate once per 2 month kit swap. You do not calibrate more than that. A 2 month kit is 2 reagent A bottles and 1 x B and C. Once that box is used and you move to the next box you calibrate. Each box has a calibration solution. They used to sell them but I've never bought them. I've not had the need.

In my use case yes, it is about 6 months. Alk here is 8.1 - 8.5. I just replaced reagent A today and you can see B and C are 43 - 45%. So this will last close to 2 months. If you are looking for an exact then you already know that answer number of tests and element level will vary use and left over.

I drop $200 on a bottle of wine without thinking twice. Others spend $500 on a 1/2 inch frag. In the case of the Trident you know you will be buying reagents. If you go the route of the ION you will be buying reference fluid and probes. If you go the route of the reef bot you will be buying test kits based on hobbyist recommendations. Seney slides, etc.

tl; dr - no, I don't expect exact 2 or 6 month use but I do get it close. your mileage may vary

 

[burningmime]

Yes, Alkatronic has a DIY solution. Can it do Ca and MG? If not then it really isn't a direct comparison.

That's like saying you can't compare Five Guys and McDonalds because Five Guys doesn't have chicken on the menu. If you really want chicken (Mg/Ca) then McDonald's (Trident) is your only option. But if you want fast food in general (Alk monitoring), then of course you can compare them.

Most people only test Ca/Mg weekly or less. Keeping a pulse on the tank is nice (eg it could prevent overdosing calcium two-part), and it saves you maybe 10 minutes of testing a week, but it's far from a deal breaker. Considering these in terms of alkalinity testing, Mg/Ca is a just a bonus feature (that also brings some negatives to the table, since it means more reagents, more moving parts, more potentials for breakage, etc).

As someone who isn't routinely dropping $200 on wine, and thinks testing more times a day would be cool, DIY reagent is absolutely something to think about. For me at least I'm looking at it this way (someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of these assumptions):

Trident has...
+ Established US-based company with track record for customer service/support
+ Very easy to set up and calibrate, and less frequent recalibration
+ Extra nice-to-have tests of Mg/Ca
+ Good Apex integration

Alkatronic has...
+ Cheaper and easier to find reagents (higher initial cost, but much cheaper long-term; pays itself off in a year)
+ Can test more frequently without paying a fortune
+ No problems with reagent getting old or tests at bottom of bottle being less accurate
+ Fewer moving parts, so potentially less breakages. Also seems easier to fix these yourself without sending unit in.
+ Possibly more reliable/accurate tests
+ A little Apex integration

GHL Kh Director has...
+ Many of the advantages of the Alkatronic wrt reagents
+ Looks nice

Like anything else, there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

 

[FlyPenFly]

The horror stories on Alktronic are far worse considering how few were actually sold.

 

[ca1ore]

I was fortunate to get a Trident within a few days of it first coming to the market --- May 2019 if memory serves. Haven't had a lick of trouble with it. Ran it for about six months before also trying automated dosing. Partly because I could not find a way to control my CaRx that I liked, and partly because I think Neptune has done it in a smart and low risk way. CaRx provides the majority of the minerals, automated dosing just the last 10% or so.

I was never particularly diligent abut testing, so trident hasn't saved much time necessarily .... but I do get test results much more frequently .

Haven't crashed a tank since 2007 .... maybe just jinxed myself (with a big Nor'Easter coming this week)

 

[d5332]

Thank you all for the replies.

This type of information helps to start painting a picture as to why so many ppl sell the trident soon after buying it and why there are some that are trying to stick with it.

Would be great to hear some more tips, pit falls, pros, cons and tricks if you have more to share.

 

[92Miata]

The idea that a trident controlling your dosing can't possibly crash your tank via overdose is absolute nonsense.

 

[Variant]

After hesitating, I wanted to put my 2 cents on your topic. Full disclaimer I have not owned a Trident. However, I have owned an alternative alkalinity monitor that also has the capability of adjusting alkalinity dosage. So hopefully I can still be helpful

After automating alkalinity testing, I realized it was over hyped and didn't really help me considering where my tank was in its life cycle. I was early on with my tank with corals growing from small frags to medium sized colonies. During that time, it was important for me to develop good husbandry practices and not default to tech. Now if I had an old tank with giant colonies, perhaps having a monitor check my alk would be a good idea, but that's not where I was. There's a time and place for everything, otherwise it's just for looks, show, and bragging rights.

 

[d5332]

So does the trident and apex at least provide the fail safe of shutting off outlets to reactors and dosing pumps if alk goes past a certain set point?

 

[92Miata]

So does the trident and apex at least provide the fail safe of shutting off outlets to reactors and dosing pumps if alk goes past a certain set point?

Sure, in theory.

But the biggest issue people seem to have is bad tests - or drifting tests - and if you set it to turn off when alk>9 and it's reading 8 when you're really at 12 dKH, they're not going to work.

 

[d5332]

Sure, in theory.

But the biggest issue people seem to have is bad tests - or drifting tests - and if you set it to turn off when alk>9 and it's reading 8 when you're really at 12 dKH, they're not going to work.

Excellent point.
Not much of a fail safe when at work.

 

[Bato367]

Thanks for asking. These were my questions as I was recently perusing Neptune Systems products for my next dream reef tank.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I opened this thread but all of the already existing threads do not provide visibility into why so many people sell their trident so quickly after buying it.

I never knew there was a large number of people selling their Trident after they bought it kind of crazy to me I would not reef without it and actually I’m buying a second one for my second system tomorrow

 

[Crustaceon]

It all depends on how involved you are with maintaining your tank. Things like Trident are meant to automate things, but using it is simply another thing to fail and wipe out your tank. I never count on things to work perfectly when I’m not home to do anything about it. I design my systems so that if something fails, it’s not a critical failure. Each accessory adds additional risk. The tradeoff should be weighed. My parameters aren’t swinging all over the place, therefore I don’t need a machine to continually test, correct parameters and potentially fail in the process, throwing at least one of those parameters way out of wack. IMO, it’s better to learn how to keep things in the most basic terms and then decide which additional do-dads you can risk adding to the system. More stuff = more risk. Just my 2c.

 

[Jeffcb]

 

[User1]

I never knew there was a large number of people selling their Trident after they bought it kind of crazy to me I would not reef without it and actually I’m buying a second one for my second system tomorrow

There isn't.

The idea that a trident controlling your dosing can't possibly crash your tank via overdose is absolute nonsense.

Do you own a trident or is this second hand information? If you own one then you know the Trident alone isn't going to overdose. There is built in logic to prevent this.

The key is the control range for the desired parameter:
This is the range in which the Trident will have influence over the dosing volume. Outside the range the Trident will return to the “normal dosing amount.”

For example, in the situation illustrated here with a control value of 425 and a range of +/-50, the Trident will have influence over the calcium level between 375-475. The greatest degree of influence will be 375 ppm and the least degree of influence at 475 ppm.

Seems pretty absolute to me. I do agree though that other things can happen with dosing be it hobbyist error or equipment failures. However, this isn't unique to the trident as it can happen with any automation systems we use.

 

[d5332]

Appreciate everyone's input.
I ended up getting the alkatronic given that the reagents are more affordable and I would not want automated dosing driven by controllers that require frequent calibration.

Plus I do not own an apex.
Everything runs on old reefkeeper stuff that has never failed and a few smart plugs.

Will see how installing this thing goes.