Why did my fish die?!

[brandon429]

Foughter

here's how to re proof your tank for a second go round, much safer:


leave everything as is dont add more bacteria, I suspect what you added is fine, we're about to see

step one is run an ammonia test right now and post the pic, this is calibrated zero reading, even though Im sure it will indicate some. its the calibrated zero reading nonetheless for this special assessment.

add liquid ammonium chloride, cyclers ammonia from Dr Tims off amazon, into the large tank until your ammonia test goes up one slight increment, specifically do not go to 2 ppm.

post pic #2 of the ammonia test showing a -slight- change up, from pic #1. the least movement up you can get from adding a very little amount of liquid ammonia, dont go off the directions go several drops at a time, wait, test in 10 mins until you drive it up barely from pic 1 levels.


in 24 hours post a new pic of the ammonia reading, I bet it matches pic 1

if it doesnt, your bottle bac was dead and by inference your sand was dry start.

if it does match, ammonia movement went down overnite, you are cycled and only dr michael baden can find the etiology of your fish loss with a full necropsy

 

[ichthyoid]

“Second- I noticed that the fish seemed to be getting worked over by my power heads. So I turned them off.
The fish were running into the rocks and listing sideways. Then they angled up and down about 90 degrees. There colors started to transition to a more opaque hue.”

The OP mentions turning the tank fans off, as the fish were getting blown around?

That could do it!

 

[Chrisfish]

From the first post the OP made stating the tank had been up and running for 2 weeks, he tested for PH, salinity and temperature, unless he forgot to add the results, nitrites, ammonia and nitratesHad not been tested, I’m thinking the tank had not cycled and the ammonia was already in the tank when the fish were added. JMO.
@Foughter there are a lot of helpful and knowledgeable people here and no question is a dumb one , there’s also a lot of great you tube videos for saltwater beginners, believe me the members here and you tube have helped me a lot.

 

[rwreef]

I guess we need tank parameters and get the complete story.

 

[brandon429]

no cuz they'll always report free ammonia, when there is some, when there isn't any


we must measure it as the movement mentioned above, not the single-point reading.


only seneye can provide that. not api, not red sea...

the number of fully running fully stocked bright and happy reefs that report free ammonia and nitrite right now not using seneye is google.

literally the number google lol have misreported ammonia levels using non seneye kits.

the number of seneye users that report dangerous level ammonia is zero, so we learned to only take the motion or lack thereof as the right way to use non seneye kits. nitrite wont factor to any degree in a marine tank cycle, its only ammonia that matters.

 

[MabuyaQ]

The questions I have is what bacteria product did you add and how much, and does the label mention ammonia as an ingredient?

 

[dhanking]

You can add live sand and live rock

 

[proxy001]

And 2 hours drip clown fish...
I agree with the theory about bacteria depleting oxygen and fish dying by lack of O2 rather than Ammonia poisoning so fast.

 

[proxy001]

OP: dont drip acclimate clown fish for 2 hours. IMHO this is doing more harm than good.
Once your fish is cycled, read on acclimation for fish. Essentially float the bag 15 minutes, at 6 cups of tank water spaced 5 minutes apart, release fish into the tank, discard bag water.
Failure is part of the learning curve, we have all been there.
I recommend the BRS videos on YouTube.

 

[brandon429]

I would not have caught that about too long acclimation, nice forensic clueing there. was stumped as to the cause here that sounds reasonable/plausible.

 

[Doglips56]

Im aware we want to jump on the ammonia death mode, aware


but 50 gallons dilution ya'll think will kill two clowns in 30 mins>

no


something else here, acclimation. salinity, something. opening a shipping bag and adding prime...something

It’s the only thing I could think of. I’ve had ammonia spikes in an established QT tank succumb very quickly to ammonia and or nitrites so I still think it’s a viable theory

 

[Glass Algae]

What would you suggest for best practices for cycling a brand new tank?

I used dry rock washed sand and bio Spira while I dosed 1ml of ammonia into my 13.5 gal to check if it was being dealt with once a week.

Then once I presumed it was cycled I did a 45 percent water change and dosed 1ml of ammonia and it was gone before I even went to bed.
Ezpz no critters were harmed

 

[Karling]

Foughter - Its going to be tough to speculate where your tank was at and what caused the problem. My guess is that the tank was not cycled and the fact you drip acclimated for 2 hours (way to long) caused it.

FWIW: When i was young, I had someone drop a large chunk of Dry Ice into my 55G bowfront Cichlid tank at a Halloween party and it caused ALL kinds of issues. Ultimately the temp dropped quickly around the dry ice, but what killed the fish was the sudden loss of oxygen in the water from the dry ice.

For your learning curve, i just had some issues - see my threads. but i have been doing this a while.

1. When you use quick start bacteria - you still need to let it cycle for at least a week. Check your parameters and then go from there. I suspect that you just threw both in together and there was no bacteria at all. All kinds of nasty water issues in the water when the fish came in.

2. Acclimating. Follow the acclimation others have stated. I pour HALF of the water out of the bag down the drain and put the rest with the livestock in a half gallon plastic bowl I use strictly for this purpose. I then get 1 cup of water. i put half the cup in set timer for 5 minutes. When the timer goes off empty the water in the cup into the bowl. I do this 3 more times (25 minutes) total. But then before i put the fish in the water i check the temperature of the water. If the water matches temp or close (half a degree) I will move the fish to the DT with a net and discard the water.

a great rule of thumb. 1 degree of water temp is like 10 degrees of outside temp.

I am thinking you shocked the fish by placing them from cold water into the warm water in your tank. Coupled with everything else im sure it created a bunch of issues internally for your livestock.

Good Luck - Please reach out if you need a hand with anything!

 

[Foughter]

It sounds more like you have toxins in the tank or the fish had a rough transition into the tank.. Maybe run carbon to help clear the water and do some water swaps.

How can I test for Toxins?

 

[LegendaryCG]

How can I test for Toxins?

Can get a poly pad it will change colors based on what is absorbed. It also could be oxygen or a lot of stuff but based on the information provided I really doubt it’s the ammonia cycle.

 

[brandon429]

do a test for ammonia oxidation to directly eliminate that as a cause wo doubt.

 

[Karling]

have your RO/DI water tested at the local fish store. Also get a local water report as well.

 

[Privateye]

I'd really like to confirm the sealant used by the OP on this DIY tank before I join the ammonia squad. That could be the issue there. Many types contain mold inhibitors or other chemicals and are not fish safe.

Even if ammonia is a problem at the moment (and it very well may be) we could be treating the symptom and not the source. Especially if it's causing things to die - bacteria potentially included.

 

[Doglips56]

Unless I missed something, 2 clowns died after less than 1 day, in a new/uncycled ~175 gallon system?

Cycle or no cycle, I doubt that it was ammonium poisoning, unless you dosed ammonium chloride or hydroxide.

Did you?

I’m the one who brought up the ammonia but only because I’ve had my QT running continuously for almost a year and have twice recently had ammonia/nitrite spikes in it for unknown reasons. Thankfully only lost one fish and was able to save the others (2 different times, not a bunch of fish added together) I still haven’t figured out the problem. But I think we know each other from ARC and you know I’m a relative newbie so obviously those of you with tons of expertise will think of things I’ve never run into yet I was just trying to be helpful.

 

[Privateye]

I’m the one who brought up the ammonia but only because I’ve had my QT running continuously for almost a year and have twice recently had ammonia/nitrite spikes in it for unknown reasons. Thankfully only lost one fish and was able to save the others (2 different times, not a bunch of fish added together) I still haven’t figured out the problem. But I think we know each other from ARC and you know I’m a relative newbie so obviously those of you with tons of expertise will think of things I’ve never run into yet I was just trying to be helpful.

Yeah, no shade against your idea. Ammonia is likely present and it's too early to add fish, especially without testing the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate first. Here's my tl;dr explanation for my thought process:

I have worked in the aquarium trade, and commercial aquaculture for years. In my experience, ammonia poisoning results more gasping/piping behavior, as the ammonia burns their gills. I have never seen loss of balance (typically neurologically-related) or death in 30 minutes. The amount of ammonia (and more importantly, un-ionized ammonia) I've seen in fish systems is beyond what many people on this forum would think possible. To give you an idea, our densities were up to about 100 kg per cubic meter. That being said, the tolerance to ammonia depends on species, and I was raising something tougher than reef fishes.

IME ammonia can cause some slight cloudiness, especially at extremely high levels (like a bucket of bait shrimp) but in aquariums the cloudiness in the cycle primarily occurs when nitrite is accumulating. At the farm I could look at a tank and pretty much see nitrite, if it was elevated to the problem level. The symptom for nitrite poisoning is kind of similar to ammonia, piping and gasping. However, it's more similar to hypoxia (low oxygen) because it causes the hemoglobin in their blood to carry less oxygen. It's actually more of a problem in freshwater than saltwater because the chloride ions block it from being taken up in the gills. What's salt? Sodium chloride. A few grams in a few hundred gallons of freshwater is enough to treat a sizeable nitrite spike in freshwater, and we reefers measure our salt in grams per liter (ppt). I'm doubting nitrite as the culprit.

I used to be all over a freshwater forum (based on large tanks) in years past as I was into big, predatory, freshwater fishes. DIY tank builds are very common there, and the sealants, paints, and other chemicals are something that people often ask or are warned about. For instance, GE Silicone I is fine, but GE Silicone II is a fish killer due to mold inhibitors. Both are sold at the local hardware store. Fish running into rocks and losing balance sounds like a neurotoxin to me, but that's just speculation. Still, something affected the nervous system in the OP's fish, whether directly or indirectly. This isn't just gasping, so I think there might be more to the story.

By no means am I a fish health expert. I do not carry the necessary certification. But I took fish Pathology/Health, Fish Immunology, and Fish Nutrition in grad school. This is just the first thing I'd look at given my personal experience and training.

But yeah, ammonia is probably in there too lol.

And for the OP, no shame either if this is the case. We just want to know that you figured it out so that you can be successful in the future. We welcome more information. It's a hobby of learning for all of us. I learned plenty here