Why do I need an Apex (controller)?

[Mark75]

Steve's thread has me thinking about purchasing some type of controller. I enjoy the "techy" side of the hobby but I am also thrifty,...I really need to justify this amount.

After the initial set-up and cycle I only test Alk., Cal., Mag. regularly, I test salinity, nitrates, and Phosphates if there is a concern. I have never tested or monitored PH.

It is my understanding no controller can monitor/test any of the mentioned parameters? I don't see the benefit but I have to be missing something because they are popular and everyone that owns one loves it!

Explain why I need a controller, I really want something else to play with! [emoji16]

 

[Chriscrna]

Come over and I will show you.







And I'll show you the Apex.

And I've got some coral to give you if your tank is ready.

 

[MOPAR]

I use it for safety. The ability to monitor PH and temp from any where and have an alert system to warn me of potential issues is great. It does concern me knowing my tank is relying so heavily on one piece of equipment, but I think the chances of a heater breaking is far greater.

 

[BlueDevil]

I was in the same boat as you. While I absolutely love my gadgets, I too try and justify the cost for most things. I took the plunge and got the Apex and I cannot tell you how happy I am with it. With that being said, can you do everything the Apex does manually? Of course, but it all takes manual effort. If you are willing to suck up the cost to have that little bit of automation, a controller is the best gadget to get. If you are willing to forgo the bells and whistles, and a couple of critical things that the Apex provides, I'm sure you can get by just fine without it.

Here are some pros in favor of getting a controller:

1. Active pH monitoring: IMHO the pH is quite an important parameter to monitor. Large pH swings, or even incorrect pH values can wreck havoc in your tank wiping out corals potentially. The Apex monitors pH actively so you do not need to test it manually (this comes with the obvious caveat of probes malfunctioning, periodic calibration etc...)

2. Control, control, control! You can control pretty much everything you have equipment wise in your tank with the push of a button.

• Lights (assuming they are compatible with the controller) can be programmed to have some very creative light cycles.
  
• Heater (controller set to turn it off to keep from overheating in case of a malfunction)
  
• Powerheads (if you go with MPs, you can have all sorts of programming done on them),
  
• Dosers (you can use timers, but with the Apex, you can create a more robust schedule and set a failsafe so that the controllers shuts down the dosers in case it manfunctions and starts dumping additives)
• Programming for feeding and maintenance: I have it set up such that my skimmer and ATO turns off automatically when the return pump is turned off. This helps during feeding/cleaning etc... and keeps the skimmer from overflowing, or the ATO high water alarm from going off. These are more of a convenience and can easily be done manually. But then I would forget to turn the equipment back on upon return pump restart so the controller eliminates that worry.

3. Failsafe: this IMHO is probably the most important use of a controller. You can set all kinds of failsafes to protect your tank. Heater to turn off in case a certain temp is exceeded, ATO to turn off in case of a sudden pH drop (to mitigate ATO failing), dosers to turn off, lights to turn off in case the tank overheats. These are just some of them and I'm sure there are plenty more that I haven't explored yet.

As far as cons go, other than the hit to the pocket book, I cannot think of a single con to having a controller.

Alright I'll stop now since I seem to be sounding more like a controller salesman. Just wanted to give you some info on how a controller has helped me. As you can see other than the failsafes (which are a huge plus) all the other things can be accomplished with timers, manual work etc...

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[cale0721]

I agree with Yash!

An apex is on my list to get in the coming months! [emoji225]

 

[Macdaddynick1]

" I enjoy the "techy" side of the hobby but I am also thrifty,...I really need to justify this amount. " this is why. haha jk , I would suggest you just go on and buy it and then you will find a million justifications to have it. I justified it because i was working in another state for a month and i still had the control of my tank . I fed my fish whenever i wanted to , i was able to turn off the skimmer when it was overflowing , i was able to monitor my ph and temperature. Its a good thing to have if you have a lot of corals and you don't want to stress more than you already do. You still probably want to have someone keep an eye on the tank if you leave for a while.

 

[Chriscrna]

I'm going to start a new thread entitled, "Why I need a cider?"

 

[Mark75]

@Chriscrna that is a fantastic idea, nothing like seeing it operate in person. I also have not seen your tank up and running and I am ready for
corals.

My son is getting married Saturday so it will have to be after this weekend,..but I will get with you on a date.

Thanks everyone for the info! [emoji3]

 

[CodyRVA]

I don't think you "need" a controller, but they certainly make life easier and can help make your system more stable. I personally don't use them for the probes: PH, Salinity, etc. The only one i do use is temp. With that being said, i think the demand for a controller really depends on each system and what you're trying to accomplish in your reef. I personally will never buy an Apex controller simply because of the price. I have accomplished everything necessary with a Reef Keeper and spent a fraction of the money in the process.

 

[Smotz]

I use both a ReefAngel and an Apex. I don't use Salinity and PH probes anymore.

I do like the ReefAngel better because I have a ton more control. I use my controllers for custom wave routines, light schedules, etc.
One of the reasons I like the ReefAngel better than the Apex is the water level monitoring. Currently, Apex does not have any canned methods to monitor water levels with the exception of float switches. I never liked float switches as things can interfere with them - salt creep, snails, etc. The ReefAngel has waterlevel modules that use barometric pressure (or something to the effect of) that allows me to monitor the EXACT percent of water is in the vessel I am monitoring.

I can build cool routines like (in layman's terms):

If waterlevel(1) => 90 then shut off the return pump (if my water level is rising in my display tank there may be a clog in the return)

if waterlevel(2) =< 85 then turn on ATOPUMP until waterlevel(2) =>95 - this would be my ATO routine

if waterlevel(3) =< 50 then email [email protected] - let me know when my ATO reservoir is low..

 

[Mark75]

If you don't use the salinity or Ph probe(I wouldn't), already have a reliable ATO and wavemaker(I do),....sounds like the Apex is just a $700 heater controller?

I need a controller with a ALk. probe, Cal. probe, Mag. probe, Nitrate probe. I wouldn't mind looking over at the tank and seeing those parameters displayed on an LCD screen!

 

[shoelaceike]

It sounds like it's great for people that travel a lot.....

 

[KJ]

"Why I need a cider?"

And sippy cup

 

[BlueDevil]

I need a controller with a ALk. probe, Cal. probe, Mag. probe, Nitrate probe. I wouldn't mind looking over at the tank and seeing those parameters displayed on an LCD screen!

Well that is likely not going to be possible with the titration involved with checking those parameters. I'm sure every single reefer out there would kill to have those measured automatically [emoji4]

I cannot stress the failsafes enough though. An ATO is only as reliable as the components within it. They all fail at some point. If you're going to be seriously into corals it will be a worthy investment.

Just out of curiosity, how often do you measure your pH? That is an essential component of keeping corals (and fish to a slightly lesser extent)

 

[Smotz]

If you don't use the salinity or Ph probe(I wouldn't), already have a reliable ATO and wavemaker(I do),....sounds like the Apex is just a $700 heater controller?

I need a controller with a ALk. probe, Cal. probe, Mag. probe, Nitrate probe. I wouldn't mind looking over at the tank and seeing those parameters displayed on an LCD screen!

I don't know of any ATO that can do all the things I mentioned at once

 

[Mark75]

I never measure Ph,...I keep Cal. and Alk. @ 430/8 and don't worry about Ph. My previous tank had a Ph monitor and my Ph was always 8.1-8.3.

Maybe I should test Ph,....other than opening a window how do you adjust Ph without throwing everything out of whack?

 

[jsker]

The ETRC guys are all over this one, But here are my thoughts. When I first setup this system, someone said "you have all this money invested, why not" that made since, with the apex I can check in on long work days, (still need to get the auto feeder) and if I ever get a chance to leave town for a trip in can check in and make sure everything is running and were is need to be, if not the alarms will sound and I can call some one to attend to the issues. I also like that the Apex has in fusion a nice easy way to track my parameter with graphs that is use. I can keep notes which I really have not used yet. I can program outlets to have different function during feedings or maintenance. This comes in hand when I make my water changes so that my return pump, skimmer, heater, and my ATO turn off and then I delay my ATO to turn back on so that I am not fill the sump as the water level adjusts after my maintenance. There are all kinds of thing you can have the Apex do, you just need to read the manual https://www.neptunesystems.com/downloads/docs/Comprehensive_Reference_Manual.pdf and ask questions.

 

[shoelaceike]

Well that is likely not going to be possible with the titration involved with checking those parameters. I'm sure every single reefer out there would kill to have those measured automatically [emoji4]

I cannot stress the failsafes enough though. An ATO is only as reliable as the components within it. They all fail at some point. If you're going to be seriously into corals it will be a worthy investment.

Just out of curiosity, how often do you measure your pH? That is an essential component of keeping corals (and fish to a slightly lesser extent)

Couldn't a controller fail? And if you have many things on the controller and it fails you can be really screwed

 

[cee]

Why not to have a controller:
'
1. Not necessary for a successful reef
2. Money better spent on husbandry
3. Too much reliance on the controller numbers, less attention to what the animals are trying to tell you.
4. Fail safe, no, these are not industrial-grade PLCs or controllers that are designed to operate equipment that people's lives depend on. No more so than any other electronic device utilized in the hobby.

I really don't see any reason to own one. If I ever did I'd invest in a real Programmable Logic Controller that can do all of this and more and is truly designed to be a fail safe system with built in redundancy, loss of power known states, etc.

I haven't monitored or measured pH in over a decade. Probably of the least concern IME compared to other parameters.

You can get a Ca probe and a NO3 probe. Somewhat expensive. They foul quickly if constantly submerged so you'd have to have a stepper motor to raise/lower or something similar.

You can derive alkalinity from pH and CO2 content but CO2 probes are also expensive.

Spend the money on good test kits and husbandry. Spend the time on monitoring the animals and how they change/grow/retract/extend. Spend the time on weekly water changes. Get a simple ATO with redundant water level sensors. Cycle the lights on simple timers, corals don't really seem to care about dawn/dusk (maybe the reefer does, however). Get 2 undersized heaters so you have redundancy. Don't worry about dosers/powerheads, the controllers they come with are adequate. Pay attention to and enjoy your tank. Put the $500+ into savings or a good retirement fund.

 

[BlueDevil]

Couldn't a controller fail? And if you have many things on the controller and it fails you can be really screwed

Agreed. However if my controller ever were to fail and go off I get an instant text/email alert notifying me of the same. So in essence it is no different from any other component failing with the added security that if any one component were to fail independently I would get the same alert.

For example whenever my return pump goes off (either intentionally, or due to malfunction, or power outage) I get the alert immediately. Likewise when it turns back on I get another alert. So I can take stock of the situation and figure out how long stuff isn't working before I can mobilize help if I am not able to tend to it myself sooner. Same with heater, ATO etc. anything that is plugged in to the controller sends me an alert when certain criteria are met (on, off, eclipsing certain levels etc).

The only situation that I can think of that would be catastrophic would be if no one is able to get to the tank to fix the issue for more than a day, and the controller power bar is what goes out, turning off my return, powerheads or heater.