Fishfinder
2500 Club Member
That fish looks to be dead a while. But I think it's a disease.
Why do my fish keep dying?
- Thread starter aandfsoccr04
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Fishfinder
2500 Club Member
What is on the side of that anthia?
Scarybo
Active Member
I didnt mean to infer that you dont understand proper QT. I'm sure you do. I also believe most LFS and Online retailers understand proper QT. It is just prohibitively expensive for them to do it. They would need to isolate each shipment. Treat that shipment for 2-4 weeks. Observation would be impossible. What retailer has the time to truly observe the fish. It's a business. The cost of time, water, space, and inventory sitting for weeks make it unrealistic. This is why the industry has such a high prevalence of ich and velvet. It has been my practice to treat all new fish as if they have been exposed to parasites.
prsnlty
Jackie
aandfsoccr04
Active Member
The first fish died this morning I took out and put in a bag. The anthia died this evening and there's a piece of sand on his side in the photo.
Assuming there's an internal parasite the three current fish in the tank have and now are immune to, the only treatment going forward is going to get rid of the current fish and start over with a blank slate?
Assuming there's an internal parasite the three current fish in the tank have and now are immune to, the only treatment going forward is going to get rid of the current fish and start over with a blank slate?
aandfsoccr04
Active Member
Dead three hours prior to photo.
Fishfinder
2500 Club Member
I think I see flukes on the yellow tang
Possibly ick or velvet as well. I can't tell with the reflection
Possibly ick or velvet as well. I can't tell with the reflection
prsnlty
Jackie
The first fish looks like brook or flukes the second looks like Lymphocystis. You can match these up with the pictorial disease guide on the link this posted on the first page of this thread.
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Fishfinder
2500 Club Member
The first could be brook but I can't tell what kind of fish it is.
prsnlty
Jackie
I agree with @aykwm and @Fishfinder.... if it is in fact any of these parasites you need to qt the remaining fish and treat them accordingly even if they don't look sick. And let your tank sit fallow for 76 days to kill off the parasite in your system or it's just going to become a vicious circle. Please read the guide because it has instructions on how to treat all of these issues
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Scarybo
Active Member
+1
It's hard to diagnose based on the picture. I agree with the recommendation that you place all fish in QT and treat.
How are you acclimating the fish? Lots of online retailers send the fish in lower salinity than most keep their tanks.. if your doing prolonged dips to account for this it could be ammonia problems, if you are not it could be the salinity jump on top of the stress from shipping..
Definitely could be disease related as well.
How long where the fish alive in your tank before dying and were they eating, hiding, etc?
Definitely could be disease related as well.
How long where the fish alive in your tank before dying and were they eating, hiding, etc?
aandfsoccr04
Active Member
I did a short temp acclimation for maybe 15-20 minutes and then added a cup of water every 5 minutes for 25 minutes. They all lived for several days before perishing. Some of them are still living as of now with no apparent visible signs of illness or disease. Eating fine and swimming fine with no aggression that I can see.
The primary problem with the photos in your first post was that they're hosted on Photobucket. Photobucket has recently changed their "Terms of Service", and if you want to display photos on third-party sites (like this one) you'll have to pay Photobucket something like $35 a year. You can also upload photos directly to Reef2Reef, which I find works well.
As for your fish, I can't see anything obvious that's wrong with them in the photos, or in reading through your description. Did any of them exhibit any behavioral symptoms, such as flashing, head-shaking, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, or rapid breathing? @melypr1985 or @Humblefish may be able to discern something that I can't see - I am but an apprentice; they are masters.
Flukes, as Fishfinder suggested, are a possibility - though they don't usually kill so quickly. You can try a freshwater dip to provide relief and confirm the existence of flukes, as detailed in this post by melypr1985: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082 . The freshwater dip won't clear all flukes - you'll want Praziquantel to do that. Prazi-Pro is mostly reef-safe, but may wipe out ornamental worms.
Quarantining - and even running this display "fallow" may turn out to be a good idea. It can often happen that fish will develop an immunity to a disease that's present in a tank and appear to do well, while all new fish added are quickly overcome. Most of these diseases can't survive without a fish host, so running the tank for anywhere from six weeks (for velvet, brooklynella) up to 76 days (for ich) will allow all of the disease organisms present to die of starvation.
Acclimating from online retailers can be tricky - the pH of the water in the bag is often low, due to accumulated CO2. Opening the bag will allow that CO2 to dissipate, and the pH will begin to rise - which increases the toxicity of the ammonia in the bag water. Most folks have found that the best way to acclimate shipped fish is to test the salinity of the water in the bag, match the salinity of the water in their quarantine tank to that, temperature-adjust only, by floating the bag ... and release the fish. It only takes a couple of drops of bag-water, extracted through a pin-prick, to determine the salinity. Raising salinity more than a few points a day can be pretty lethal within the next day or three - though lowering it isn't generally a problem.
~Bruce
As for your fish, I can't see anything obvious that's wrong with them in the photos, or in reading through your description. Did any of them exhibit any behavioral symptoms, such as flashing, head-shaking, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, or rapid breathing? @melypr1985 or @Humblefish may be able to discern something that I can't see - I am but an apprentice; they are masters.
Flukes, as Fishfinder suggested, are a possibility - though they don't usually kill so quickly. You can try a freshwater dip to provide relief and confirm the existence of flukes, as detailed in this post by melypr1985: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082 . The freshwater dip won't clear all flukes - you'll want Praziquantel to do that. Prazi-Pro is mostly reef-safe, but may wipe out ornamental worms.
Quarantining - and even running this display "fallow" may turn out to be a good idea. It can often happen that fish will develop an immunity to a disease that's present in a tank and appear to do well, while all new fish added are quickly overcome. Most of these diseases can't survive without a fish host, so running the tank for anywhere from six weeks (for velvet, brooklynella) up to 76 days (for ich) will allow all of the disease organisms present to die of starvation.
Acclimating from online retailers can be tricky - the pH of the water in the bag is often low, due to accumulated CO2. Opening the bag will allow that CO2 to dissipate, and the pH will begin to rise - which increases the toxicity of the ammonia in the bag water. Most folks have found that the best way to acclimate shipped fish is to test the salinity of the water in the bag, match the salinity of the water in their quarantine tank to that, temperature-adjust only, by floating the bag ... and release the fish. It only takes a couple of drops of bag-water, extracted through a pin-prick, to determine the salinity. Raising salinity more than a few points a day can be pretty lethal within the next day or three - though lowering it isn't generally a problem.
~Bruce
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
+more
I agree with Bruce, it's difficult to tell what is killing them without more definitive symptoms. But, I would likely suggest moving the fish to QT and treating with either a) Chloroquine Phosphate or b) copper AND metroplex.
Either of those options would take care of the main 4 external parasites: ich, velvet, brook, uronema.
A freshwater dip as mentioned above will determine if flukes are present. Either way, 2 doses of prazi 5-7 days apart is recommended as a prophylactic de-wormer.
Running fallow for 76 days will give you a clean slate, and then you ideally would want to QT all new incoming fish to observe for parasites.
Good luck, I hope you can get it figured out!
Either of those options would take care of the main 4 external parasites: ich, velvet, brook, uronema.
A freshwater dip as mentioned above will determine if flukes are present. Either way, 2 doses of prazi 5-7 days apart is recommended as a prophylactic de-wormer.
Running fallow for 76 days will give you a clean slate, and then you ideally would want to QT all new incoming fish to observe for parasites.
Good luck, I hope you can get it figured out!
Reefbuds
Valuable Member
I really don't much much about disease but I feel as tho this guy's fins should be observed. Look kind of funkyDead three hours prior to photo.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I think this is an excellent observation. Osmotic shock can cause darkening of the fish from internal injuries but my not show other symptoms other than sluggishness. Other things to look for are rapid breathing, frayed fins, or them keeping their fins clamped to the sides of their bodies. Death normally occurs 2 to 3 days after the sudden change in salinity.
I have used several online suppliers and have never had the shipping water be more than 1.020 salinity and I've seen it as low as 1.016. I would imagine some fish are able to adjust to salinity swings better than others and this could be what is going on.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Couldn't agree more with this ^^
