why do people want no po4???

[slayerhellfire]

I constantly keep seeing people saying 0.02 is ideal for all reef tanks....why, I mean anytime I have seen thriving reef tanks there po4 is high atleast 10 or above. I am currently raising mine I am at 0.04 which I feel is low now that I see how my corals look when it's higher. I am just wondering why everyone wants super low nitrates and po4, imo everything looks like poop, colors tend to fade as well. Now granted my tank is 90% zoas and some LPS. I have one red planet and now that my po4 is going higher i am seeing better colors. Just want to see what everyone else thinks about po4.

 

[tastyfish]

I think there's a balance with PO4 and NO3 to be had. I'm not going to quote Redfield or anything, but tanks which look good with high PO4 levels, also seem to have high NO3.

The lower your NO3, the lower you want your PO4 however. My experience has been dealing with high PO4 (up to 0.17) and 0 NO3. and that's not fun.

 

[krausean]

This is the first time I'm hearing of people running a successful reef, with sps at 10ppm phosphate...I've heard 2 or 3ppm, but never 10

 

[slayerhellfire]

I think 10 is prob going be my max i want my tank to run, it seems my corals are fatter, more colorful with higher po4 my nitrates stay less than 5

 

[slayerhellfire]

I also hear about balance, what do they mean about balance is there a specific number do they have to be the same. I hear about balance between nutrients but never really good explanation of what you should have or strive for

 

[cracker]

good question Slayer. I'm not experienced enough to know so I just follow what I read from certain people.

 

[tastyfish]

I think 10 is prob going be my max i want my tank to run, it seems my corals are fatter, more colorful with higher po4 my nitrates stay less than 5

I thought this was a typo and you meant 0.1ppm. Are you saying your PO4 levels are 10ppm!? Are you sure on this reading?

 

[bubbaque]

I think you got it a little wrong. I don't think anyone runs a tank at 10 ppm for phosphate, maybe .10. For nitrate 10 is fine. You don't want either no3 and po4 to be 0. Try to be greater than 0 for both and your fine. For deeper darker color go higher, for more pale stay low.

 

[slayerhellfire]

I thought this was a typo and you meant 0.1ppm. Are you saying your PO4 levels are 10ppm!? Are you sure on this reading?

I want them to be 0.10 yes, currently there at 0.04, I am surprised you think this is high majority go my friends tanks run about this and are thriving, joshporksandwich zoas his are 0.10 as well sometimes higher

 

[slayerhellfire]

I think you got it a little wrong. I don't think anyone runs a tank at 10 ppm for phosphate, maybe .10. For nitrate 10 is fine. You don't want either no3 and po4 to be 0.

0.10 yes lol I forgot the zero

 

[slayerhellfire]

sorry guys typo lol

 

[tastyfish]

I want them to be 0.10 yes, currently there at 0.04, I am surprised you think this is high majority go my friends tanks run about this and are thriving, joshporksandwich zoas his are 0.10 as well sometimes higher

0.10ppm is a high PO4 reading in comparison to the normal advice on the subject. However, as I said, you can't consider this number in isolation and must also look at NO3 levels. I have seen some amazing tanks running at 150ppm NO3 (actually, they stopped bothering to measure it after that) and 0.17-0.2ppm PO4.

If like me, your NO3 levels struggle to even register on a high res kit (0.25ppm), but your PO4 levels hit 0.17ppm, then it causes all sorts of issues for coral.

 

[slayerhellfire]

0.10ppm is a high PO4 reading in comparison to the normal advice on the subject. However, as I said, you can't consider this number in isolation and must also look at NO3 levels. I have seen some amazing tanks running at 150ppm NO3 (actually, they stopped bothering to measure it after that) and 0.17-0.2ppm PO4.

If like me, your NO3 levels struggle to even register on a high res kit (0.25ppm), but your PO4 levels hit 0.17ppm, then it causes all sorts of issues for coral.

I guess I am more considering a all zoa tank like mine, my nitrates stay less than 5. it seems to me that anytime my tank reads 0.02 or lower and lower nitrates things don't look good like there starving

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I constantly keep seeing people saying 0.02 is ideal for all reef tanks....why, I mean anytime I have seen thriving reef tanks there po4 is high atleast 10 or above. I am currently raising mine I am at 0.04 which I feel is low now that I see how my corals look when it's higher. I am just wondering why everyone wants super low nitrates and po4, imo everything looks like poop, colors tend to fade as well. Now granted my tank is 90% zoas and some LPS. I have one red planet and now that my po4 is going higher i am seeing better colors. Just want to see what everyone else thinks about po4.

The nutrient levels chosen can be a balancing act between enough for corals and not enough for undesirable algae problems. I'm not sure I've seen any problem in folks tanks who report 0.02 ppm or 0.03 ppm phosphate.

We used to recommend lower nutrients (0.01 ppm or less phosphate) in an attempt to starve out algae, but unless you are dosing sufficient other sources of N and P (say, amino acids or special coral foods), then the corals begin to suffer too (and risked diatoms), and so killing off algae with low nutrients isn't the current trend for most people

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I guess I am more considering a all zoa tank like mine, my nitrates stay less than 5. it seems to me that anytime my tank reads 0.02 or lower and lower nitrates things don't look good like there starving

If they are starving from low P, obviously more phosphate can help them, but so can more foods. The phosphate levels on a reef are often not as high as 0.02 ppm.

 

[dealseer]

I didn’t know that everyone wanted them to be zero. I thought we want them in the ratio of 1 to 16 with nitrates around 1 or maybe 2. Am I missing something?

 

[landlubber]

I didn’t know that everyone wanted them to be zero. I thought we want them in the ratio of 1 to 16 with nitrates around 1 or maybe 2. Am I missing something?

the 2 posts above you completely answered the question and it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

 

[dealseer]

Well there ya go!

 

[XNavyDiver]

Pretty interesting macna lecture, listen to what he says about phosphate:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I didn’t know that everyone wanted them to be zero. I thought we want them in the ratio of 1 to 16 with nitrates around 1 or maybe 2. Am I missing something?

IMO, a ratio is not a good perspective. IMO, they should be targeted independently to optimal values. (say, 0.02-0.03 ppm and a few ppm nitrate)

If one is excessively high, why should the other also be excessively high?

And if one is excessively low, why should both be excessively low?