Why do waterchanges when you can dose?

[Devaji]

I hope to set up a large FOWLR system in a year or so 400 gal. min. but if I go really big I have been thinking of no water changes. but then again a box of IO regular is around $40 bucks for 200 gallons...so its yet to be determined.

but for a smaller reef tank I think WC ( *FOR ME* ) at this time is easier.
for the new hous and new tank I am setting up AWC really looking forward to that!

 

[HuduVudu]

Spoiler ... If you dose ... you HAVE TO change the water. PERIOD.

When you dose if you could possibly add calcium and carbonate in exactly one to one ratio (you can't) then you will still have to deal with the two elements that you can't test for rising in your tank ... sodium and chloride diluting out all of the other elements not related to NaCl. You have to correct this imbalance or you tank will crash. The more you dose the more pronounced this problem becomes. Many people try to work around this by getting bigger tanks. This just drags out the problem and eventually the larger tank will also succumb to the imbalance. Most people with large enough tanks usually don't last long enough in the hobby to truly see the effects of what they are doing. And even if they are in long term the length of time a large tank takes to become out of balance is significant enough for them to never really understand what causes their tanks to crash.

If you use other methods of calcium carbonate addition (kalkwasser, calcium reactor) then the only issues that you will face are as stated on the thread making infrequent or no water changes a possibility.

A rudimentary understanding of chemistry goes a VERY long way in this hobby. It helps shield you from ideas or products that might be very very harmful in the long run.

 

[ahiggins]

Yes go on haha. For people with larger tanks, 2 things come into play:

1: water changes are much more time consuming and labor intensive than with smaller tanks.

2: I honestly prefer to keep my water stable versus running the risk of accidentally putting improperly mixed saltwater into my tank for a water change. Since I don't usually buy saltwater from the store, I make it myself. Which is more labor..

Just a couple thoughts

That’s true. Bigger tanks, water changes start becoming a hassle My biggest one is 60gal but still, I’d much rather do manual labor of water change than add more equipment and costs and unknowns.

 

[Squidward]

Don't water changes help fish grow as well? I know that's what helps freshwater fish grow.

 

[jda]

BTW - all of the successful "no water change" tanks actually do change water, just not regularly. None of them are opposed to it and will do it if they need to or if something seems off. They should be represented as "limited water change" tanks instead.

 

[WallyB]

Nice Gumby

Thanks.
Gumby is cool.
Got one for kids years ago, they out grew the kiddie stuff, and threw it out. I snagged it for my office.

This is what convinced me to do Daily small water changes vs the Painful Big buckets Every other week or monthly.

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php
Punch in some values for fun....

I was suprized that Daily Small is just as good and actually better. When you include trace elements replenish and stability.

Been over a year no bucket changes, and I love it.

 

[ArizonaAquatics]

BTW - all of the successful "no water change" tanks actually do change water, just not regularly. None of them are opposed to it and will do it if they need to or if something seems off. They should be represented as "limited water change" tanks instead.

I just throw in ~5 gallons of new saltwater every once in a while to compensate for the skimmer. Only change if something goes very bad but even then im prepared to mix some up at any time.

 

[jda]

^ this is what people need to see and hear when they are contemplating a "no water change" tank. The people are not totally against them, just do not do them unless they need to. This is easier to deal with since you don't have to plan for everything that could go wrong. You still need to have some salt, pump and mixing station on hand.

The last thing that I will say about this is that not all corals will be cool with it. I keep acropora and a few kinds of softies that are valuable to sell and trade. Some of the trickier acropora do much better when you change water, but not all can notice. The meltier type of Z&P will stop melting if you change some water. The vast majority of stuff does not seem to mind, but some things do. ...so when you look at a limited water change tank, you need to look at what is not in there as much as what is in the tank. This is similar to the high N and P tanks. Those of you whom have been doing this for a long time and can "see things" know exactly what I am talking about.

 

[X-37B]

I've followed threads where folks have gone super scientific to maintain Water Parameters without Water Change.
They succeeded with Unbelieveble success. Very impressive.
Even better than no water changes, since they replenished and kept all elements optimal. Some even boosted.

Very complex maintenance, testing, and adjustments. Painful testing of all trace elements, minor and major.

In many observations they eventually Crashed the tank, one way or another. Usually with some kind of Toxin, or overdose, or something gone astray.

So as painful as water changes may feel its actually the easier way to keep your Salt Water Optimal. Still need dosing if you have Demanding Coral Load.

Less expensive too, when you consider the additives and test kits needed for no Water change method.

If you hate the proces of Manual Water Changes. The Automate it. Plenty of options and also DIY.

Its not complex unless you want it to be.
It does not cost more.
It takes me less than a minute to dose trace by hand daily.
My carx takes care of alk and ca.
Testing is minimal at best.
Once a week for alk.
Once a month for trace.
Its easier than water changes.
More people have crashed their tanks that do water changes.

Again, no scheduled water changes, is a better way to put it.

Some water needs to be replaced to account for skimmer loss, cleaning out the sump, tank, and taking frags.

Its just not main stream as water changes have been a must do for so long that old habits are hard to break.

Bottom line do what works for you.
And be prepaired to do a water change if you need one. I am.

 

[Exotic_Reefer0]

Can't respond to everyone, but you guys are awesome. I appreciate all the input haha. I'll probably stick to the water changes sense its what I've been doing, but atleast now I can see the different routes everyone has in the hobby. The automated water change thing seems cool, id just be afraid of device malfunctioning. Some people rather water changes, some rather dose‍! at the end of the day people do what works best for them

 

[User1]

JUST CURIOUS to why we have to do water changes when we can dose and use refugium to keep nitrates down? I do 10g every week on a 60g system, these darn 5 gallon buckets are getting annoying lol

Ignoring everything else because I am also not the best at changing water age. Think of a 16,000 gallon swimming pool. Water evaporates and you top it off however most of the water is there since the first drop entered the pool. One year, two, three go by but that water is still there. Now think about 5, 6, or more years down the road. I'm thinking old water is going to be questionable regardless of chemicals put in to keep it clean.

So while not apples to apples I think of swimming pools and my tanks total water volume when talking about water changes. Probably wrong because as I said I really am not the best at them - going on 4 months as I type this but at least this time I have an excuse...hip replacement

 

[ReefHomieJon]

I run the Triton method. Dosing the big 3 which also include trace elements. Skimmer and refugium export nutrients. Just need a big enough refugium to grow your macro algae. Water changes are only done when ICP test says to.

How much that cost monthly?

 

[WallyB]

Its not complex unless you want it to be.
It does not cost more.
It takes me less than a minute to dose trace by hand daily.
My carx takes care of alk and ca.
Testing is minimal at best.
Once a week for alk.
Once a month for trace.
Its easier than water changes.
More people have crashed their tanks that do water changes.

Again, no scheduled water changes, is a better way to put it.

Some water needs to be replaced to account for skimmer loss, cleaning out the sump, tank, and taking frags.

Its just not main stream as water changes have been a must do for so long that old habits are hard to break.

Bottom line do what works for you.
And be prepaired to do a water change if you need one. I am.

You do have a point, and I guess with today's lower cost and quick ICP testing it might be as easy as you say.
No need to even buy a pile of test kits, that expire before you use them up.
I personally hate water testing. I do it since I know it's realy important for success. I also recently autmoated Alk Testing DIY which made it even easier with Two Part dosing to cover ALK,MAG and CALCIUM (Balanced), so I only manually test N & P.

 

[tjclapp]

JUST CURIOUS to why we have to do water changes when we can dose and use refugium to keep nitrates down? I do 10g every week on a 60g system, these darn 5 gallon buckets are getting annoying lol

I feel the perfect solution to this is an effective refugium with chaeto, small bi weekly water changes, and dosing aminos, trace, magnesium, calcium, and alk

 

[WallyB]

Ignoring everything else because I am also not the best at changing water age. Think of a 16,000 gallon swimming pool. Water evaporates and you top it off however most of the water is there since the first drop entered the pool. One year, two, three go by but that water is still there. Now think about 5, 6, or more years down the road. I'm thinking old water is going to be questionable regardless of chemicals put in to keep it clean.

So while not apples to apples I think of swimming pools and my tanks total water volume when talking about water changes. Probably wrong because as I said I really am not the best at them - going on 4 months as I type this but at least this time I have an excuse...hip replacement

Well you point is true about water the pure H20 part.

In our Tanks the fish or corals need the pure base H20 part 100%.....
PLUS all the other atoms/molecules, which is what we add/replenish when with do a Mixed SALT Water change. And the toxins, wastes that we remove when we take the same portion of water out.

The non water change method(s) leave the H20 in our tanks. Filtering the toxins/waste out, and adding the atoms/molecules by drops.

 

[Des Westcott]

I reckon the short answer is obvious already from the above posts.

ALL METHODS WORK. You just have to pick what works for your lifestyle and tank setup.

I think it boils down to what the individual sees as hard work. Generally when faced with two options to create the same result, people will choose the one that requires less effort for them. But that is perception based.

One person thinks that testing and dosing is no work at all, but lugging drums is a drag.
Another person thinks testing finnicky tests are confusing, but having a big saltwater mixing station is cool.
Another loves watching an AWC system click on and off is the best thing ever.

The fact that there are many successful reefs out there and they all use different methods to achieve that success is enough proof for me.

For me AWC with NSW and a Kalkwasser reactor and topping up with ABC+ is the regimen I can deal with

 

[MarineREEFpassion]

JUST CURIOUS to why we have to do water changes when we can dose and use refugium to keep nitrates down? I do 10g every week on a 60g system, these darn 5 gallon buckets are getting annoying lol

If you dose using the Triton method it almost take water changes out of the equation. With the Triton method though you need to make sure you have a big enough refugium for Chaeto as that is the element that will absorb your nitrites/nitrates.

 

[Iam_Mitch]

How much that cost monthly?

Great question. I have not added it up because I usually buy other things not related to Triton when I order everything. Random guess would say I’m somewhere in the $50 range.

 

[Big E]

If you dose using the Triton method it almost take water changes out of the equation. With the Triton method though you need to make sure you have a big enough refugium for Chaeto as that is the element that will absorb your nitrites/nitrates.

It's also the biggest consumer of those elements your corals need.........it's why the Triton method recommends an algae filter............you're locked in to buying trace elements that get sucked up much faster if you didn't have that as part of your export system.

 

[Dan_P]

JUST CURIOUS to why we have to do water changes when we can dose and use refugium to keep nitrates down? I do 10g every week on a 60g system, these darn 5 gallon buckets are getting annoying lol

Just stop changing the water and determine if you like the results.