Why does nothing survive QT?

[pseudorand]

I just found the corpse of the emerald crab I had in QT (pretty sure it's not just molt). I just did a 30% water change, and he looked great before that, so I assume it's related.

Before him, I had 5 of 6 astrea snails die less than a week in to QT. I also have 10 tiny hermits, but I see at least one empty shell. The QT was just set up. I insta-cycled it with media from my DT, but had 0.25ppm ammonia at one point, which I addressed with some frequent water changes.

I'm about 3 weeks in to this round of QT. 9 coral frags seem fine so far, except for a kenya tree that hasn't fully extended polyps since the last water change.

Before this, I've also lost two wrasses in QT, probably due to the prophylactic cu treatment (yes, I did a half dost to start, but should have gone slower, especially with wrasses. And yes, I completely washed everything thoroughly and tested for Cu before switching to inverts). I'll never treat healthy fish again.

When I first got my DT, I just dumped stuff in (after a proper cycle, of course). Fish, snails, hermits, palys, coraline algae. It's all doing great except for one firefish I lost on vacation because he was too timid to eat without target feeding.

I'm about to agree with the folks who say QT kills more pets than disease. What the heck am I doing wrong? For the QT advocates, do you keep a fully cycled and we'll maintained QT tank online all the time. Or two (one for fish, one for inverts)?

 

[T-J]

Wait, did you say you used a copper treatment in your QT? If so, that's why your inverts are dying. From what I've read, copper can leach back into the water from the silicone seams, even if you rinse out the tank.
Just my thoughts.

 

[stanleo]

Yeah if you used copper at any time in this tank, it will be inhospitable to inverts forever. When you do water changes, are you using new saltwater or saltwater from the main tank?

 

[Hugh Mann]

Yeah if you used copper at any time in this tank, it will be inhospitable to inverts forever. When you do water changes, are you using new saltwater or saltwater from the main tank?

Untrue. Chuck some Cuprisorb in for a while and it's fine for inverts. Can confirm as I am currently using a tank that had copper in it as my display. Inverts are totally fine, from snails to urchins to green and aussie star polyps.

 

[Reefer1978]

Cupramine supposed to be non-chellated and can wash off, Other copper treatments would make the tank inhospitable to inverts, even if you can't detect on a test kit.

 

[pseudorand]

Wait, did you say you used a copper treatment in your QT? If so, that's why your inverts are dying. From what I've read, copper can leach back into the water from the silicone seams, even if you rinse out the tank.
Just my thoughts.

I just did 6 tests with hanna LR and I think cu is at about 40 to 60ppb in my QT. I got 178, 0, 64, 0, 46 and 69. I trust the last two most. I rinsed with tap, then RO/DI, then tank water, wiped the vial with a lint-free cloth and waited 45 sec for bubbles to dissapate.

Per this article, that's not good but not abnormal. I did order cuprisorb just now, and I'll test my RO/DI, DT and salt mix tonight, but I'm not convinced that's it. The DT is bare, so the silicone seams are the only place it could leach from.

 

[stanleo]

Untrue. Chuck some Cuprisorb in for a while and it's fine for inverts. Can confirm as I am currently using a tank that had copper in it as my display. Inverts are totally fine, from snails to urchins to green and aussie star polyps.

I sit corrected. I have always read that nothing can fully rid the tank of copper once it is introduced but I have also never heard of that product.

 

[pseudorand]

Yeah if you used copper at any time in this tank, it will be inhospitable to inverts forever. When you do water changes, are you using new saltwater or saltwater from the main tank?

Fresh salt mix. Should I be using DT water?

 

[pseudorand]

Yeah if you used copper at any time in this tank, it will be inhospitable to inverts forever. When you do water changes, are you using new saltwater or saltwater from the main tank?

Does anyone have science about the relative sensitivity of various inverts to Cu? Does the astrea snails dieing quick, the emerald crab in a few weeks and the corals still looking fine support the Cu hypothesis? I would have guessed the corals, including a Monti shelf and bird's nest, would have died first.

 

[stanleo]

Fresh salt mix. Should I be using DT water?

I have always heard that it is best to use water from your DT because it puts the fish in the same water that it will eventually live in and reduces stress, which to my mind is the biggest contributor to fish disease. Just use the water you have from a DT water change.

 

[Redfoxtang]

For QT I have only lost fish if somehow they jumped out or there were already not going to make it. I keep my QT cycled with copper power fish only. I do not QT inverts as I buy mine from Reef Cleaners and he does not keep fish so his inverts are disease free. I also do not use DT tank water for water changes in my QT as I keep my QT salinity at 1.018 and not 26. I try and match my LFS so it’s a plop and drop into QT.

 

[Hugh Mann]

I sit corrected. I have always read that nothing can fully rid the tank of copper once it is introduced but I have also never heard of that product.

I'm sure it's good practice to not use a copper exposed tank with inverts if you can, especially when some inverts cost hundreds of dollars. A Better safe than sorry policy is huge in this hobby.
Cuprisorb is a chelating agent, absorbs copper out of the water. Works best with ionic copper, hours or days. Will work at a much, much slower rate for chelated copper. Relatively cheap, and reusable with a bleach bath. 10/10 would recommend.

 

[T-J]

I'm sure it's good practice to not use a copper exposed tank with inverts if you can, especially when some inverts cost hundreds of dollars. A Better safe than sorry policy is huge in this hobby.
Cuprisorb is a chelating agent, absorbs copper out of the water. Works best with ionic copper, hours or days. Will work at a much, much slower rate for chelated copper. Relatively cheap, and reusable with a bleach bath. 10/10 would recommend.

Honestly though, for as cheap as you can pick up a 20g tank for a QT, I just wouldn't risk it. Could easily have two tanks, one marked "COPPER" the other unmarked.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Does anyone have science about the relative sensitivity of various inverts to Cu? Does the astrea snails dieing quick, the emerald crab in a few weeks and the corals still looking fine support the Cu hypothesis? I would have guessed the corals, including a Monti shelf and bird's nest, would have died first.

While I don't have any scientific articles to back me up, I believe certain inverts have more or less sensitivity to copper, if just based on size, rate of uptake, etc. But I don't wear a lab coat, so I could also be 100% wrong.
Though I did have copepods start showing up while I was reading 0.5ppm chelated copper. Hanna HR.