Why does this hobby have to be sooooo stressful?

[scruggyj]

Can't I just enjoy my pretty fish and coral in my big box of water???

Anyway, just a bad weekend I guess.

1st - I do QT everything and had a cupramine treatment go bad this weekend.

I have had 3 fish in a 65 gal QT for a little over 2 weeks. (Lietuenat tang, kole tang and one spot foxface)
Started cupramine treatment (no signs of illness just proactive treatment) Thursday and added 2nd dose Saturday.
I added 5ml on Thurs and 5ml on Sat. Which should equate to .5 level for 52 gallons of water.
But this is a 65 gallon so I was hoping for .3-.4 or somewhere in there.
Well I dosed and left the house for a few hours and come back to all 3 fish struggling. I quickly did a big water change and started running cupisorb.
This morning (monday) 2 of the 3 fish are dead.
I have used cupramine before with no isssue on my current fish so I am not sure what happened.
Maybe I dosed too fast but not sure. If/when I use it again I will go much slower.

This is a cycled and established QT that has been up and running and constantly filled with fish since February this year.
I did not have any other meds in the tank either. I have no idea what went wrong. I even tested the water and it did not appear to be over .5 for copper so I am unsure of how this could be an overdose.

Hoping the remaining fish pulls through.



2nd - On another possible bad note I saw some kind of white spots on my Yellow tang in the DT. Not sure what it is/was but it sure stress me out to the max! He seems normal eathing normal and not sratching or anything like that. In fact you couldn't even see them without just the blue lights on.
No other fish seem impacted either. Hoping maybe just coral sting or something as it did not really look like ich. All the fish in the DT tank have been through 4 weeks of copper and additional time in QT. In fact my DT was fallow for 10 weeks during this QT and tank upgrade. Nothing has been added to the tank except fish that have been through copper and then 4 week of observation in QT so I am not sure how it could be ich. I hope it is not but it still stresses me out. Guess I will just have to keep an eye on it. Catching my 8 fish in my 180 is not something I want to do.

It just sucks when you try and do everything right and you still fell so stressed out and worry about every little thing! I guess sometimes it makes you wonder why you put so much time, money and effort into something you are suppose to enjoy and then it just ends up causing more stress!

Sorry to be such a downer but I guess I just needed to vent.

 

[NanaReefer]

Your not being a downer at all. I'm sure many of us have felt the same way. I know I have! I am very sorry for your loss

 

[Pete polyp]

This hobby is bipolar for sure.... When bad things happen its the worst possible feeling in the world. But when everything is great its like being on cloud 9. Three months from now you'll probably not even remember this incident or not care any more.

 

[skinz78]

I'm feeling the same way right now with my tank.... Clams suck.

 

[Pete polyp]

My 40 has been a pita since I set it up in February. Anything that could go wrong has gone wrong. I'm hoping to have it lined out soon though.

 

[DaveMorris]

Well when you think about all that is going on in our tanks, both mechanically as well as biologically and chemically, it is no surprise that it is a challenge. All we can do is hope for the best and do our best to provide a good environment for our livestock.

 

[reeffirstaid]

My college ecology professor had a sign on his desk, "Ignorance is self imposed bad luck." Don't take this the wrong way, but it really applies to reef aquariums. There is so much to learn, so much to know and so many different opinions and/or theories, it's hard to break through the garbage and get to the reality. A few things to remember. Never treat fish, unless they show signs of illness. Copper carries with it a host of possible side effects, one being damage to the kidneys. Also, if you have had copper in your QT tank before, even with cupramine, some copper residue could still exist, throwing you false test results. Hyposalinity is a far safer, and equally effective method, of treating fish for possible parasites. It actually benefits the fish's natural osmoregulation, by making it easier for them to balance internal salt content with the water. If I were you, I would run a traditional QT, from her on out, using no medications, and only hyposalinity in the case of a parasite outbreak. I know many people recommend medications for new arrivals, as a preventative. It's best to see if a fish is sick, before prescribing a medicine.

 

[scruggyj]

I don't totally disagree. I don't like treating with meds at all but I hate the though of going through the trouble to QT and then infect the DT anyway. I may have to go with hypo going foward.

 

[racin2438]

Becuz...we all want that perfect tank.

every time I see a reefer's post of their tank, that has a ridicules amount of money into it. I want mine look that way too.

 

[EricB]

When I QT my new additions, I do prophylactic hypo rather than meds. It has worked good for me.

 

[Eienna]

Yeah, except hypo doesn't work on velvet.

Let me guess - the tangs are the dead ones, right? They generally don't do well in copper, period.

But I totally understand....it's been an awful mess for me too sometimes.

 

[mcarroll]

Stress makes up 99% of the cause of disease.

Overcrowding is probably the biggest stress factor that we actually have any degree of control over.

Almost all of us fail to take advantage of that control, instead opting for bandaids to manage water quality...when that's actually a symptom, not really the issue. (Use a skimmer or whatever, but don't expect to put more fish in a tank because of it.)

Healthy, otherwise-unstressed fish are adaptable to even moderately good water conditions.

Fish which are fresh into the store couldn't be more stressed. If they've had time to settle into eating at the store, assuming the store has good husbandry going on (we assume that about you too...regular water changes and such), the best thing you can do for a new fish IMO is take him home and put him into a reef where he has plenty of room to hide and swim and stop feeling (as much) like a prisoner.

Appropriate tankmates are next most important to stress.

Quality food is next.

After this, if a fish doesn't make it (which should be RARE) there's a good chance they were terminal at the fish store, just not displaying symptoms. Wild-caught fish are very often subjected to almost unimaginable conditions between capture and the store, so it's actually remarkable such a high percentage survive.

The flip side is true too. If they don't succumb and you keep all conditions as described, there's practically zero chance of that fish ever becoming sick.

Overcrowding ruins all that by introducing permanent, persistent stress on the animals and making the whole system more fragile.

65 prolly seems like a a lot of gallons for a QT tank...and really it is, compared to others I've seen. But it was probably very small for a set of tangs, and I'm guessing it wasn't set up as a reef since it's described as a QT...not a low-stress environment. To be honest, the display sounds like it may be crowded already as well...at least borderline.

I know this all doesn't help too much now, but if you opt for a reboot consider using low fish population to your advantage.

-Matt

 

[reeffirstaid]

matt, you are 100% correct regarding overcrowding. 100% constant stress takes a fish's immune system, and essentially shuts it right off, after making them so nervous they are unable to feed.

 

[scruggyj]

65 prolly seems like a a lot of gallons for a QT tank...and really it is, compared to others I've seen. But it was probably very small for a set of tangs, and I'm guessing it wasn't set up as a reef since it's described as a QT...not a low-stress environment. To be honest, the display sounds like it may be crowded already as well...at least borderline.
-Matt

I am not sure how you came to this conclusion by my initial post. My DT tank is no where near over crowded. 180 gallons.
[video=youtube;RehIvnIhDB8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RehIvnIhDB8[/video]

Also, the 65 was my old display that I now use as a QT.
Here is a video from 6-18-14 of the QT a few weeks before I dosed the copper and had an issue there. The foxface and kole didn't make it. The LT seems to be doing just fine now.
[video=youtube;4_cj9hFqzbU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_cj9hFqzbU[/video]


My point was that even when trying to do everything I can to keep everyone healthy and the DT free of any sickness (QT..etc) it still stresses me out.

 

[mcarroll]

I would not say it's crowded, but it is borderline....I wouldn't be looking to add anymore fish, personally. Once these grow up, that tank will be perfect as-is. Even room for corals to grow out nice a big! It also won't add any more to YOUR stress level this way.

Also, that QT is like a fish store sale tank, just a little taller. Which is expected, since it's a QT. But, again personally, I wouldn't put any more than one big fish like those in there at a time for QT. It's far from a low-stress environment. It will help if you deck it out a little more with some fake plants you can bleach in between QT's to make more cover zones. Whatever is cheap, and tall enough to reach the top (or close) and not-neon is fine.

As far as the stress, all I can say is "best laid plans...", and try to look at it as an omen. This is supposed to be a stress-relieving hobby, but as with all of human creation, it is what we make of it. Why not consider running the reef in a "lower gear" with fewer fish (asi-is, basically) for a good while? It will almost have to be easier and less stress to maintain that way vs more fish. And there's no limit on when you can decide to add more fish....whenever you feel like it's not going to be more stress!

Hope this helps....didn't mean to pile on your downer earlier, but I think I did. :angel:

-Matt

 

[scruggyj]

Well really wasn't looking for advise per say. I was venting. I think the stress part is mostly due to my personality. I am a worry wart! Even though I knew I took every per caution to keep ich out of the display and I am still sure there is no ich. I will still worry every time I see something abnormal.

As far as the qt. I got those fish from a local reefer that is moving. That is why I had those 3 at the same time. Anyway, I am good right now as the display is doing great and the lieutenant tang seems to be recovering from the copper fiasco.

 

[scruggyj]

I am also confused at to why you are so focused on my qt. There is no issue with my qt and it serves me well. The only issue I have had is due to the cupramine. Otherwise this qt works just fine.

 

[Mike in CT]

I think your QT is fine and applaud you for taking what you thought was best for your new fish and your tank overall. Something might have gone wrong with the copper treatment but I am sure you have learned from it. Hyposaltinity is no walk in the park either , a lot can go wrong. I think this hobby can almost be stress free. Live rock tank lightly stocked with tough fish can run years stress free... But of course that would get boring, so we must try out new things to keeping interesting.... And yes a bit stressful.

 

[scruggyj]

Thanks. Once I get fully stocked and those 3 fish would have put me there for sure. Things will settle a bit. But I am still a little crazy and anytime I see a spot of mark on a fish I will worry. Lol. But hat is just the way I am. Aside from that corals can cause stress too. Something looks bad or dies you wonder what is wrong are my parameters off? Etc. It is a stressfull hobby. At least for me. You can do everything right and still fail at times. (Not saying I did everything right) but you get the idea.

 

[3dees]

geez, after reading this I feel like I've been blessed. I converted my 120 gal. discus tank to sw back in August. started as a fowlr with 150 lbs of live rock but been adding corals for about 5 months. all softies. 13 fish, all smallish except for the one spot foxface. no sump, two Jeboa powerheads, reef Octopus hob skimmer. no dosing since I won't be adding any sps or lps. everything is going great. I just wonder why some tanks are so hard to get right.