Why doesn't ich just leave me alone ....

Jonathan blackwood · Mar 3, 2017

Like everyone else... once in there reef keeping or fish loving career have been exposed to ich. And it's that time again for me unfortunately... I bought a sick puffer didn't show any symptoms at the time of purchase and now he has passed away and has infected my tank

and I know it was the fish I bought because the pet store said the whole shipment is now infected there tanks as well... im just wondering how to kill and disinfect my tank without using copper ??? And keeping this parasite away for good! Any recommendations??

buckroe07 · Mar 3, 2017

Aw, sorry for your loss. You will have to let your tank go fallow (fishless) for 76 days. That will allow whatever tomonts anchored on live rock, snails, hermits, sand, etc, to release and die since they cannot attach to a host. Long but worth the wait...

wkscott · Mar 3, 2017

All of your current fish at now at high risk of also becoming infected. If it is ich, as mentioned above, you will need to leave your tank completely fishless for 76 days. In the meantime, you'll need to quickly set up a quarantine tank, move your fish into it, and treat them.https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/ich-eradication-vs-management.45/
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine.232/

cmcoker · Mar 3, 2017

I think you may need to be reading about velvet... That's a lot of white spots..

azbigjohn · Mar 3, 2017

#reefsquad could probably help deciding if it is ich or velvet... How long was it displaying the spots before it died?

Jonathan blackwood · Mar 3, 2017

buckroe07 said:
Aw, sorry for your loss. You will have to let your tank go fallow (fishless) for 76 days. That will allow whatever tomonts anchored on live rock, snails, hermits, sand, etc, to release and die since they cannot attach to a host. Long but worth the wait...

That is sooooooooo long

(((((( so boring to watch rock sit there lol

Jonathan blackwood · Mar 3, 2017

azbigjohn said:
#reefsquad could probably help deciding if it is ich or velvet... How long was it displaying the spots before it died?

The puffer literally showed spots over a 1-2 period and then died that night. Like no spots or symptoms, then bam!!! Next day died

... like it just covered him in hours..

buckroe07 · Mar 3, 2017

Lol! I know! At least I got to watch the hermits and snails. You should put ttin there now and wait the 76 days or set up a quarantine tank and put what ever hermits, snails, crabs, etc you want to put in your display

Scubabeth · Mar 3, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
The puffer literally showed spots over a 1-2 period and then died that night. Like no spots or symptoms, then bam!!! Next day died ... like it just covered him in hours..

@Jonathan blackwood, that is probably velvet then, especially when combined with the large number of dots visible on your puffer. You need to get all of your fish out and into a QT tank as soon as you can and treat with copper or CP, depending on what other fish you have. Check the stickies in the disease section for more detailed information. Act quickly, and good luck on saving the rest of your fish! Be sure to ask questions if you need to, and the experts here (not me!) will step in and advise you; they're great!

cmcoker · Mar 3, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
The puffer literally showed spots over a 1-2 period and then died that night. Like no spots or symptoms, then bam!!! Next day died ... like it just covered him in hours..

This sounds velvet-y

azbigjohn · Mar 3, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
The puffer literally showed spots over a 1-2 period and then died that night. Like no spots or symptoms, then bam!!! Next day died ... like it just covered him in hours..

That fast does sound like velvet, but I am certainly not an expert....

buckroe07 · Mar 3, 2017

Sorry phone slipped. Meant to say whatever snails, hermits, crabs, etc you want to put in your display tank need to be quarantined for 76 days also since they can potentially have tomonts on them also. Again....I feel your pain. Sorry.

cmcoker · Mar 3, 2017

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/217570/
On velvet treatment, read this. Time is not on your side if it is velvet..

melypr1985 · Mar 3, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
The puffer literally showed spots over a 1-2 period and then died that night. Like no spots or symptoms, then bam!!! Next day died ... like it just covered him in hours..

This right here points to velvet for me. You need to remove all the fish for QT https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Leave the tank fallow for a minimum of 6 weeks or 76 days to be safe.

Humblefish · Mar 3, 2017

Everything about this thread screams velvet.

This protocol needs to be done to each & every fish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499437

Move quickly.

domination2580 · Mar 3, 2017

Agreed to above...velvet is being screamed by all your fish....move fast as it is a fast killer

Jonathan blackwood · Mar 4, 2017

Thank you for all the replies and info

I agree now and think it is velvet rather than ich due to how fast and progressive the disease attacks

unfortunately I don't have a QT tank .... So my next question is .??? What about copper ? If I use it, will it kill and eliminate all my bio I've built up? Or make me start from ground zero again ? Or will I be ok?

cmcoker · Mar 4, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
Thank you for all the replies and info I agree now and think it is velvet rather than ich due to how fast and progressive the disease attacks unfortunately I don't have a QT tank .... So my next question is .??? What about copper ? If I use it, will it kill and eliminate all my bio I've built up? Or make me start from ground zero again ? Or will I be ok?

What is you fish list?

I would start making saltwater now if you can. Go to petstore in the morning, get appropriate size tank, can use buckets, troughs, Brute trashcan even if necessary downside is you can't see the fish.. Just need hob filter and heater, pvc pieces for fish to hide. Some starter additive like biospira would be excellent along with copper.
Follow directions in the velvet link.
Copper in the tank is not a good idea, rock and sand will absorb and leach it making it difficult to keep a safe level of copper. It will also kill your inverts leading to ammonia spikes.

buckroe07 · Mar 4, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
That is sooooooooo long (((((( so boring to watch rock sit there lol

Per this reply, it's assumed the fish that just passed was the first one in the tank. If so, then just let the tank sit fallow for 76 days and the velvet and ich assuming you have both, will die off since there are no more hosts. If you do have other fish, then you need to buy another tank and tranfer all the fish you currently have to that tank to treat them. They have to stay there for the 76 days so that tomonts in the display tank will die off. Once the fish in quarantine show no more signs of disease and it has been 76 days, then they can go back in the display tank. Hope this clarifies things.

Humblefish · Mar 4, 2017

Jonathan blackwood said:
Thank you for all the replies and info I agree now and think it is velvet rather than ich due to how fast and progressive the disease attacks unfortunately I don't have a QT tank .... So my next question is .??? What about copper ? If I use it, will it kill and eliminate all my bio I've built up? Or make me start from ground zero again ? Or will I be ok?

If you are considering using copper in your DT, then you need to know these three things:

The presence of copper kills most corals/inverts
Your rock/sand will absorb a lot of the copper, making it difficult to ever house corals/inverts in the future
Your rock/sand will absorb a lot of the copper, making it difficult to maintain a stable therapeutic level of copper

Being able to maintain a stable therapeutic copper level for 30 days is essential to eradicating the parasites.