Why is this hobby so expensive?

[livinlifeinBKK]

Ok, after seeing a few posts today about the crazy costs involved in this hobby I thought I'd put my two cents in. I understand that reef keeping is purely a luxury but frankly I still don't understand where some of these ridiculous prices come from when it comes to fish in particular... I'm in Thailand and have been looking to get some difficult to keep butterflies so I started doing some research online and found that fish I can buy here for the equivalence of $10-$12 are being sold for around $200 on liveaquaria.com (which I assume is still a fairly competitive price as it was when I was in the States)! (This is for a Pakistani Butterfly.) I understand the prices of some of the corals a little better (although they're crazy prices as well) but how can the price of fish inflate that much from collection? The collector fisherman are barely paid anything! I know this is a somewhat rare species but the same goes for many others as well...
Is it really due to the price of shipping, fish losses, and overhead that make these prices justifiable or is somebody in the equation making a pretty penny?...I mean it is what it is but if everything is in the price then why is it so difficult for your average hobbyist to even be able to get a hold of certain fish?

What are you guys' thoughts?

 

[FishOkay]

Yeah, shipping, customs charges, taxes and all that stuff I should think, its crazy but everyone's got to get paid I suppose. Not even livestock but like the kessil A500x its £850.00 here in the UK. Its like $760 over in the US that's like $1125!

 

[mdb_talon]

Is it really due to the price of shipping, fish losses, and overhead that make these prices justifiable or is somebody in the equation making a pretty penny?

When it comes to livestock the short answer is yes. Shipping/losses/fees then add in even reasonable profits and the price gets pricey very quick. I also would suggest liveaquaria is not the best price barometer though.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Yeah, shipping, customs charges, taxes and all that stuff I should think, its crazy but everyone's got to get paid I suppose. Not even livestock but like the kessil A500x its £850.00 here in the UK. Its like $760 over in the US that's like $1125!

I can understand the companies like Fauna Marin, Aquaforest, Brightwell, etc. that charge ridiculous prices...those companies are making a pretty penny! But for just the bare essentials of the hobby like the livestock it seems a little extra inflated...of course I don't run the importing companies though so it just may be...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

However, if it is all in the price I don't see why it's so difficult for hobbyists to have access to less common species if they're willing to pay...I was listening to a video by Matt Pederson who is a senior editor of Coral Magazine and he was talking about how difficult it was for even him to get some of the species of butterflyfish he was studying at the time

 

[Unitylover]

there are also rare fish, like the Paracentropyge boylei, which is like 20,000 dollars!

 

[Unitylover]

some are understandable, because they only come from a small area, others, just why.

 

[MaxTremors]

However, if it is all in the price I don't see why it's so difficult for hobbyists to have access to less common species if they're willing to pay...I was listening to a video by Matt Pederson who is a senior editor of Coral Magazine and he was talking about how difficult it was for even him to get some of the species of butterflyfish he was studying at the time

Because there really aren’t that many reefers out there looking for these super expensive/rare species. Are importers supposed to import a bunch of these rare and sometimes delicate fish and then just sit on them until they find a buyer? Their whole business model revolves around moving product/livestock as quickly as possible, they’re not in the business of holding and conditioning fish.

 

[Unitylover]

Because there really aren’t that many reefers out there looking for these super expensive/rare species. Are importers supposed to import a bunch of these rare and sometimes delicate fish and then just sit on them until they find a buyer? Their whole business model revolves around moving product/livestock as quickly as possible, they’re not in the business of holding and conditioning fish.

Nice! Thats true, because the more they have of a fish, the cheaper it is. Supply and demand. If theres more demand than supply, its pricy. If theres low demand and high supply, its cheaper

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Because there really aren’t that many reefers out there looking for these super expensive/rare species. Are importers supposed to import a bunch of these rare and sometimes delicate fish and then just sit on them until they find a buyer? Their whole business model revolves around moving product/livestock as quickly as possible, they’re not in the business of holding and conditioning fish.

No, of course not but it seems like there should be a way for a regular guy to contact one of the companies to have one imported on request if they're willing to pay...it doesn't affect me either way though, I'm just curious

 

[rtparty]

When 70-80% of the collected fish are dying before they even reach the hobbyist, costs have to cover that somehow.

Then add in that overnight shipping in the States is $50-150 per box right now and many companies offer free shipping at a certain dollar. So that $200 fish might be one of four that made it. Say I pay $12 per fish. That's $48 just to have one to sell. Then add in shipping to the States which is a couple hundred per box and shipping to the end user. That one $200 fish might make someone $30-40. Those are terrible margins in the business world.

Oh, and all new employees think they're worth $25/hour? Costs have to go up to cover that.

 

[mdb_talon]

Because there really aren’t that many reefers out there looking for these super expensive/rare species. Are importers supposed to import a bunch of these rare and sometimes delicate fish and then just sit on them until they find a buyer? Their whole business model revolves around moving product/livestock as quickly as possible, they’re not in the business of holding and conditioning fish.

Exactly. There are a lot of costs to holding inventory someone just may occassionally want. Plus if not many are bought the collectors are less likely to get them making them less available for wholesalers to buy

 

[zdrc]

The most expensive livestock are collected at great depth (e.g. Paracentropyge boylei). The price reflects how difficult they are to collect, and how much people are willing to pay. The price disparity you are talking about Thailand vs. USA, has to do with how wealthy the populace is in those countries. For some people in the US, there is no difference between $12 and $200, both those prices are pocket change.

 

[Unitylover]

The most expensive livestock are collected at great depth (e.g. Paracentropyge boylei). The price reflects how difficult they are to collect, and how much people are willing to pay. The price disparity you are talking about Thailand vs. USA, has to do with how wealthy the populace is in those countries. For some people in the US, there is no difference between $12 and $200, both those prices are pocket change.

yes, some people make that in an hour

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

That's true, again, just curious...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

What about fish like Ruby Red Dragonettes though? Last I remember they were going for $45 a piece in Florida and they were pretty common fish

 

[MillennialReefer]

It's also relative to where you live. Here in the US, you can buy Caribbean fish that are reasonably priced (IMO from some websites) However, most people want animals from the south pacific. For example, when I lived in the middle east a lot of fish came from the red sea and they were super cheap. And its probably because there was no middle men (at least not multiple), it typically came directly from the fishermen to the LFS plus the cost of living there is inexpensive so marking up a fish would not make sense in the region. And even fish that came from the Indian ocean that had to be imported were not as expensive, but also again that's because of the shorter distance and less middle men.

 

[Unitylover]

What about fish like Ruby Red Dragonettes though? Last I remember they were going for $45 a piece in Florida and they were pretty common fish

idk, demand might have increased, supply might've decreased, warm waters, oil spil, all that stuff

 

[KrisReef]

How much does a nice dinner cost in Bangkok? If you put it in a shipping container and fly it to me it is going to cost a lot more for me to enjoy it. Please pack it well so that it stays hot!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

How much does a nice dinner cost in Bangkok? If you put it in a shipping container and fly it to me it is going to cost a lot more for me to enjoy it. Please pack it well so that it stays hot!

I'll pack 500 and assure you that one will arrive hot if you're willing to pay what I'm asking.