WHY I'VE STOPPED USING INSTANT OCEAN IN MY REEF

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

K is also high. Predictably, as it came close to my test and I prefer to keep my Potassium elevated.

SR and MO - Both these trace elements showed potentially deficient in previous Triton tests. Many reefers suggest Strontium is somewhat important for Coral health. So I began dosing a Strontium Molybdenum additive made by Kent. These are the only "none essential" trace elements since I switched to Tropic Marin.
Testing indicates my SR is a bit on the high side and MO on the low side (however this test detected MO as opposed to the Triton which did not). Will continue to dose but not as much.

FWIW, I do not consider strontium to be useful in most reef tanks.

LI - OK this was one of my concerns. When tested by Triton, on 10/5, it was 3,561 ug/l. Now it it 240 ug/l.
I'm not in a position to determine what may have caused the dramatic drop. I can say the 3 things I did differently since 10/5, were...
1. Switched from Instant Ocean to Tropic Marin Pro
2. Discontinued the use of Reef Advantage Calcium (crystal) Reef Calcium (liquid) and Reef Builder (powder) by Seachem
3. Discontinued using Red Sea ABCD Trace elements.

An additional possibility is testing error the first time. The 240 ug/l is more typical, and aside from water changes, I don't think there's a way to lower it that we know of, so you'd need to have changed more than 90% of the water with a zero lithium mix to get that drop. Did you change that much?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

HG (and AL) - Yet another element(S) that has measureable levels on ATI (0.65 ug/l) but non detectable with Triton. Problem with my heater? Seems OK. Will monitor in future.
Anyway, I now know it is not coming from my RO/DI water.

Triton says their limit of detection of mercury is 0.7 to 1.3 ppb. They would not have detected 0.65 ppb as reported here, and the value here may also just be noise.

The aluminum is quite low and not a concern. In my tests, problems started at levels above 50 ppb. You have less than 1 ppb.

 

[David S]

We cannot see the RO/DI data without your log in info, but the boron is too small to worry about in any context. If you had a diatom problem the silicon might be worth exploring, but I added way, way more than that (70 x) by dosing and it was rapidly consumed (90% decline in 3 days)..

I personally would not do anything about the RO/DI.

Thanks again, Randy.

Weird about the link. I expected it would require a login so I sent the link to my wife's email and I was able to go right to the results.
Oh well, sorry about that everyone.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FE - Here's another element which shows up on the ATI test but did not have detectable levels when tested by Triton. It seems a bit high. I do have occasional Cyano and or Diatoms, albeit nothing serious. Could that be the cause?
.

When I tested with Triton, I was dosing iron to 1-2 ug/L, so the 4 ug/l you have is not a big problem. Mine depleted to undetectable before testing, but I wouldn't agonize over the iron.

 

[David S]

FWIW, I do not consider strontium to be useful in most reef tanks.



An additional possibility is testing error the first time. The 240 ug/l is more typical, and aside from water changes, I don't think there's a way to lower it that we know of, so you'd need to have changed more than 90% of the water with a zero lithium mix to get that drop. Did you change that much?

I would estimate a change of about 80%, not more, at this point.
So let me see if I understand this correctly. The amount of Lithium used by the inhabitants of the tank is minimal, therefore I should still have the lion's share of LI from the approximately 20% of my old water, not to mention what I'm adding during water changes.
Yep, it sounds like somebody is off.
It goes to show you have to take these tests with a grain of salt.

At least, there's no Lithium in my RO/DI. My understanding is there is about 370 ug/l in the NYC tap water

 

[David S]

When I tested with Triton, I was dosing iron to 1-2 ug/L, so the 4 ug/l you have is not a big problem. Mine depleted to undetectable before testing, but I wouldn't agonize over the iron.

Thanks once again for your insight

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would estimate a change of about 80%, not more, at this point.
So let me see if I understand this correctly. The amount of Lithium used by the inhabitants of the tank is minimal, therefore I should still have the lion's share of LI from the approximately 20% of my old water, not to mention what I'm adding during water changes.
Yep, it sounds like somebody is off.
It goes to show you have to take these tests with a grain of salt.

At least, there's no Lithium in my RO/DI. My understanding is there is about 370 ug/l in the NYC tap water

Really? The NYC tap water report I just looked at said none was detected:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate16.pdf

And this New York Times article says that levels aroudn the US range from undetectable to 170 ug/L:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-all-take-a-bit-of-lithium.html

Lithium is a naturally occurring element, not a molecule like most medications, and it is present in the United States, depending on the geographic area, at concentrations that can range widely, from undetectable to around .170 milligrams per liter.

 

[David S]

Really? The NYC tap water report I just looked at said none was detected:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate16.pdf

And this New York Times article says that levels aroudn the US range from undetectable to 170 ug/L:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-all-take-a-bit-of-lithium.html

Lithium is a naturally occurring element, not a molecule like most medications, and it is present in the United States, depending on the geographic area, at concentrations that can range widely, from undetectable to around .170 milligrams per liter.

I'm sure I saw it somewhere. Perhaps I misinterpreted. I'll see if I can find it

 

[David S]

I'm sure I saw it somewhere. Perhaps I misinterpreted. I'll see if I can find it

I tried locating the original article but could not find it.
Serves me right, when all I had to do was check the NYC water test which indicates LI is undetectable.

 

[CoralReefer1019]

I’m using Fritz Pro RPM so far so good

 

[David S]

OK so I still have another Triton test kit, which I will probably use sometime in April/May.
Below are some of the lessons learned:

My initial hypothesis that my high Lithium level was due to my salt mix at the time (IO), or reef additives by Seachem or Red Sea was, in all likelihood not the case.
Rather it was due to testing error by ATI or Triton.
This cannot be seen as unusual as there has been evidence that the ICP tests are not infallible - at least for some aspects.

My other reason for switching to Tropic Marin was to see if that would help with my daily dosing of two part- in my case ESV.
My experience was such that there would be imbalances that would cause me to dose further, which undermines the stability of the tank.
I would have to say that for me, given my particular circumstances, having a 38 gallon with HOB refugium, Phophate Reactor and Skimmer, it has turned out better than expected.
I am no longer fixing imbalances between my two part.
I have been testing less and when I do test, I find my Parameters on occasion don't even require additional 2 part dosing (other than the Kalk dosing I do overnight).
So I'm dosing less. I know that sounds paradoxical as I have a lot of monties and acros growing in the tank, but that's how it is.
Perhaps it's because there is less alkalinity and more Calcium in the Tropic Marin. Most of my imbalances were caused by low values of CA.

Just to add; Last week I saw a broadcast on Youtube where an individual, known to all in the reefing community, was giving a talk to a reefing club.
He mentioned that he had been using A & B to dose but was frustrated by the imbalances - in his case it was Alkalinity which he'd be deficient in.
Ironically, he uses IO as well.
His solution to the problem; use a Calcium reactor.
For his circumstances a Calcium reactor made sense. For me, switching to another salt was the answer.

 

[madweazl]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're meaning by an imbalance between alkalinity and calcium as no such balance, exists. If you want to maintain levels that differ from fresh mixed Instant Ocean (roughly 10.5-11.0 dKH and 450ppm calcium), your doses would also have to be different depending on desired end state. Consumption of either (or both) should have been quite easy to determine and adjust accordingly.

 

[leicaguy]

Thumbs up for tropic marine pro .
Great salt,
I like it because my corals like it and do well, just simple and end of story!!!!!!!

 

[David S]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're meaning by an imbalance between alkalinity and calcium as no such balance, exists. If you want to maintain levels that differ from fresh mixed Instant Ocean (roughly 10.5-11.0 dKH and 450ppm calcium), your doses would also have to be different depending on desired end state. Consumption of either (or both) should have been quite easy to determine and adjust accordingly.

Well I prefer to keep my ALK between 7 - 9 and CA between 420 - 450.
Once I get them within this range, theoretically, dosing equal portions of two part should allow me to keep them within these parameters.
Perhaps it is a misconception on my part, but I thought that was the point of two part.
This was not happening when I was using Instant Ocean.
Since switching to Tropic Marin, I've been able to keep my parameters far more stable.
This does not mean I don't make adjustments. Today for example I tested my water and my ALK was 8.3 DKH and CA was 450 mg/l.
Based on the expected consumption in my tank, I decided not to dose 2 part today.
The point is since using TM salt I have been able to dose equal proportions of two part and I do not have to readjust either my CA or ALK as they fall nicely in my parameters.
That seems to one of the uncanny things in that both my Alk and CA are now running in lockstep. If one is a bit low the other is a bit low. If one is a bit high ditto for the other. So I dose accordingly, and with equal proportions of the two part and no additional adjusting necessary.
Prior to this, the tank would most often suffer Calcium deficiencies as opposed to ALK. Worst case scenarios both Alkalinity and Calcium would be out of whack (too little alk too much CA or vice versa). In order to keep my 2 part equal, I would further supplement with Seachem products, which couldn't be too good for stability.
Thankfully as the past two months indicate, this is a thing of the past.

 

[David S]

I’m using Fritz Pro RPM so far so good

I think there is something to be said for all of these salts, and it comes down to a multitude of factors, most importantly the size of one's tank equipment etc.
For me it was the idea of using a "fortified salt" that had elevated doses of Calcium since I was often on the short side of this element.
Ultimately, I chose Tropic Marin over Fritz, Red Sea etc was largely due to the endorsement by Triton.

 

[madweazl]

Well I prefer to keep my ALK between 7 - 9 and CA between 420 - 450.
Once I get them within this range, theoretically, dosing equal portions of two part should allow me to keep them within these parameters.
Perhaps it is a misconception on my part, but I thought that was the point of two part.
This was not happening when I was using Instant Ocean.
Since switching to Tropic Marin, I've been able to keep my parameters far more stable.
This does not mean I don't make adjustments. Today for example I tested my water and my ALK was 8.3 DKH and CA was 450 mg/l.
Based on the expected consumption in my tank, I decided not to dose 2 part today.
The point is since using TM salt I have been able to dose equal proportions of two part and I do not have to readjust either my CA or ALK as they fall nicely in my parameters.
That seems to one of the uncanny things in that both my Alk and CA are now running in lockstep. If one is a bit low the other is a bit low. If one is a bit high ditto for the other. So I dose accordingly, and with equal proportions of the two part and no additional adjusting necessary.
Prior to this, the tank would most often suffer Calcium deficiencies as opposed to ALK. Worst case scenarios both Alkalinity and Calcium would be out of whack (too little alk too much CA or vice versa). In order to keep my 2 part equal, I would further supplement with Seachem products, which couldn't be too good for stability.
Thankfully as the past two months indicate, this is a thing of the past.

Two part will be consumed in equal parts but if your desired alkalinity (or calcium) levels are a ways from desired with freshly mixed IO, that would obviously need to be accounted for. As for IO, a 15% water change will increase your alkalinity by approx .3 dKH unless you lower it (e.g. muriatic acid) prior to going into the tank. I'm assuming you were having issues with the alkalinity continuing to rise (because of the water changes) so you were compensating with the dosing? Looks like the salt you're using now mixes closer to your desired end state.

 

[David S]

Two part will be consumed in equal parts but if your desired alkalinity (or calcium) levels are a ways from desired with freshly mixed IO, that would obviously need to be accounted for. As for IO, a 15% water change will increase you alkalinity by approx .3 dKH unless you lower it (e.g. muriatic acid) prior to going into the tank. I'm assuming you were having issues with the alkalinity continuing to rise (because of the water changes) so you were compensating with the dosing? Looks like the salt you're using now mixes closer to your desired end state.

Yes
What it really comes down to is there is a consistency/predictability with this salt, I never achieved before.

 

[madweazl]

Yes
What it really comes down to is there is a consistency/predictability with this salt, I never achieved before.

Your chances of finding a mix as consistent as Instant Ocean are very slim but I understand what you're getting at; if it's easier for you and that results in spending more time enjoying a tank full of healthy inhabitants, nothing else really matters.

 

[Tek]

I moved away from manual to automated ALK & CA dosing. Based on various threads about stability, my end choice of salt was one which would closely match the parameters I was going to keep. IO fit the bill and the only changes to ALK or CA dosing was upwards due to growth. The main factor which prevented stable ALK or Ca was if Mg was low.

 

[NorthFLreefer]

Too many variables to condemn the salt, without any sort of “control” in this situation. Like someone else mentioned.. unless you send in a fresh mix to Triton and have it analyzed.