Why not just raise the pump in sump to avoid flooding?

[Gunzen]

I am in the process of building a sump for my Fluval 13.5. I have read so many horror stories about the overflow losing siphon and the sump flooding the tank.

I will drill a small hole in return to prevent reverse siphon, and my eshoppps nano overflow is supposed to be pretty solid.

But I see people place the return pump at the bottom of the right chamber. If worried about overflow, could you not just place the pump just below the surface of the final chamber and thereby assure yourself that even if some weird event happened it could only pump out a few liters?

I mean, if it runs dry, it can do that at the bottom of the sump or higher up, no?

Never seen anyone mention this, or am I missing something?

 

[Crabs McJones]

I am in the process of building a sump for my Fluval 13.5. I have read so many horror stories about the overflow losing siphon and the sump flooding the tank.

I will drill a small hole in return to prevent reverse siphon, and my eshoppps nano overflow is supposed to be pretty solid.

But I see people place the return pump at the bottom of the right chamber. If worried about overflow, could you not just place the pump just below the surface of the final chamber and thereby assure yourself that even if some weird event happened it could only pump out a few liters?

I mean, if it runs dry, it can do that at the bottom of the sump or higher up, no?

Never seen anyone mention this, or am I missing something?

All depends. If you have an automatic top off in the return chamber of your sump (which is the most common place for it being that is the chamber that's going to fluctuate), as soon as your overflow loses siphon and it starts pumping water up into the tank and lowering the level your auto top off is going to kick in, which depending on the brand of ato you have is going to dump a considerable amount of fresh water into the return chamber and then up to the tank until the reservoir runs dry or if it has time sensitive failsafe (such as the smart ato) and then shuts down and beeps to indicate a top off issue. But I guess if the overflow loses siphon that would happen anyway regardless of where the pump is positioned.

 

[Gunzen]

All depends. If you have an automatic top off in the return chamber of your sump (which is the most common place for it being that is the chamber that's going to fluctuate), as soon as your overflow loses siphon and it starts pumping water up into the tank and lowering the level your auto top off is going to kick in, which depending on the brand of ato you have is going to dump a considerable amount of fresh water into the return chamber and then up to the tank until the reservoir runs dry or if it has time sensitive failsafe (such as the smart ato) and then shuts down and beeps to indicate a top off issue. But I guess if the overflow loses siphon that would happen anyway regardless of where the pump is positioned.

I don’t use an auto top off. Point taken though. I am just saying regardless of that it seems weird that the pump sits at the bottom for no reason. Just elevated halfway up would make a huge difference in risk.

 

[Steven91]

you do run the risk of the pump running dry, which could lead to it burning out faster and needing to replace the pump faster than you should

 

[Gunzen]

you do run the risk of the pump running dry, which could lead to it burning out faster and needing to replace the pump faster than you should

Yeah, but vs a soaking wet floor seems worth it. I didn’t mean right at the top, just high enough so if it did go bad, there would be no overflow. But I see your point.

 

[TMB]

You are right about limiting the water available to the pump in the event of a drain failure. You don't want your return to be able to overflow the tank. Another option is to limit the size of the return section. Crabs is also right that the ATO can play a part in causing extra problems by filling the return section, and causing the flood. This is exactly I have my ATO controlled by APEX to only be on for 5 minutes every 3 hours, I trying to limit the amount that can be added in a given period.
The best is to try and minimize the risk from as many points as possible.

The number 1 thing that gets over looked, and usually causes the most problems, is "reefer complacency". Just because it works fine today doesn't mean it will be good tomorrow. We must continually check our systems over looking for failures, and future problems.

Good job thinking through things before problems arise!

 

[TMB]

you do run the risk of the pump running dry, which could lead to it burning out faster and needing to replace the pump faster than you should

Normally when the pump starts sucking air, it will eventually stop sending water to the tank, however the sump will not be completely dry. This little bit of water should save the pump from burning out. If it does burn out though, I would prefer that over a flood any day.

 

[cracker]

Raising the pump will lose You "some" efficiency. I'd think if it sat too high it could suck air then it would be micro bubble blast .

 

[Gunzen]

You are right about limiting the water available to the pump in the event of a drain failure. You don't want your return to be able to overflow the tank. Another option is to limit the size of the return section. Crabs is also right that the ATO can play a part in causing extra problems by filling the return section, and causing the flood. This is exactly I have my ATO controlled by APEX to only be on for 5 minutes every 3 hours, I trying to limit the amount that can be added in a given period.
The best is to try and minimize the risk from as many points as possible.

The number 1 thing that gets over looked, and usually causes the most problems, is "reefer complacency". Just because it works fine today doesn't mean it will be good tomorrow. We must continually check our systems over looking for failures, and future problems.

Good job thinking through things before problems arise!

I am definitely going to do that. Slide he baffle to the right a few more inches. I work at home, and my tank is right in my desk. I will be adding the sump and am building a stand.

It is a 13.5 and going to use a 10 or 15 gallon sump. I just want to hedge my bets.

 

[cmcoker]

If you can, you might put an elbow facing down on the pump intake if you do this. That should keep the pump from creating a vortex and sucking air.

 

[Gunzen]

Yeah, for now I will just wait until stand is done. So far, so good though. Copepods everywhere.

 

[melev]

Instead of raising the pump higher, allow the water in that return section to be lower. Bottom line: You want there to be enough empty space in the sump that in the event of a power / pump failure, the sump can hold whatever drains.

There is no reason to lift the pump, honestly.

 

[CNDReef]

I am in the process of building a sump for my Fluval 13.5. I have read so many horror stories about the overflow losing siphon and the sump flooding the tank.

I will drill a small hole in return to prevent reverse siphon, and my eshoppps nano overflow is supposed to be pretty solid.

But I see people place the return pump at the bottom of the right chamber. If worried about overflow, could you not just place the pump just below the surface of the final chamber and thereby assure yourself that even if some weird event happened it could only pump out a few liters?

I mean, if it runs dry, it can do that at the bottom of the sump or higher up, no?

Never seen anyone mention this, or am I missing something?

I think your plan is a good one. Either lift it to the point where it doesn’t suck in air, as stated above , add a elbow or shrink the return compartment. Good way to see if it works , block your drain and see how high it gets while you’re there so it doesn’t happen when you’re not

 

[Gunzen]

I think your plan is a good one. Either lift it to the point where it doesn’t suck in air, as stated above , add a elbow or shrink the return compartment. Good way to see if it works , block your drain and see how high it gets while you’re there so it doesn’t happen when you’re not

Yeah, I know it seems silly, but I really think I will feel better knowing that no matter what ( since I am drilling the return to make sure there is no reverse siphon) and there is enough room if the pump fails because of the overflow/pump height, I just won’t worry. On the other side of my office wall is new carpeting in the hallway. Just don’t care if somehow a pump burns out. Plus, if the pump burned out it, it would have burned out regardless, even if lower.

I like the idea of squeezing the final baffle over to the right a bit as well. Going to petco to pick up the sump tank today. Just finished building the stand last night. Now the plumbing and sump build begins, heh.

 

[Louis Z]

Yeah, I know it seems silly, but I really think I will feel better knowing that no matter what ( since I am drilling the return to make sure there is no reverse siphon) and there is enough room if the pump fails because of the overflow/pump height, I just won’t worry. On the other side of my office wall is new carpeting in the hallway. Just don’t care if somehow a pump burns out. Plus, if the pump burned out it, it would have burned out regardless, even if lower.

I like the idea of squeezing the final baffle over to the right a bit as well. Going to petco to pick up the sump tank today. Just finished building the stand last night. Now the plumbing and sump build begins, heh.

 

[Louis Z]

Yes I have a 20gal tall all in one sump and no baffles . No auto top off and YES I do have my return pump elevated so as not to pump all 20 gal up to tank if my siphon breaks . My tank is not drilled so I have the plastic tubes that flow water over to the external HOB drain box . Yes I do have a micro bubble blast but just add water if I see it . But I gotta say that I am moving away from this system to a 125 gal with a baffle sump system and drilled tank . The initial tank was donated to the school and I worked with it for a year that way . We are moving on up .

 

[Adam_B76]

I am in the process of building a sump for my Fluval 13.5. I have read so many horror stories about the overflow losing siphon and the sump flooding the tank.

I will drill a small hole in return to prevent reverse siphon, and my eshoppps nano overflow is supposed to be pretty solid.

But I see people place the return pump at the bottom of the right chamber. If worried about overflow, could you not just place the pump just below the surface of the final chamber and thereby assure yourself that even if some weird event happened it could only pump out a few liters?

I mean, if it runs dry, it can do that at the bottom of the sump or higher up, no?

Never seen anyone mention this, or am I missing something?

I’m in the process of building my sump and was thinking the same! I’m so afraid of a flood considering I’m using a Hang on overflow box and I live on the second floor of an apartment. Clearly the lease states “No aquariums” Last night my hob protein skimmer overflowed and pumped 5 gallons of water onto my floor. I have no idea where the water ended up but my neighbors haven’t complained about their ceiling flooding and management hasn’t knocked on my door YET! Any ideas where the water went? Seriously 5 gallons had to go somewhere. I’m still pretty shaken about the whole thing and I’m considering getting rid of my tank