Why not more fish?

[Jay Duke]

I currently have a freshwater tank at home and am starting the long journey to becoming a reef tank owner. I'm taking my time, as cost, space, and knowledge are all things that I'm currently limited on, and are all required to take a successful pass at a reef tank.

With that in mind, I have a question for all of you experienced people out there.

Why don't you have more fish in your tank?

For me, the fish are the stars of the tank. They're the primary reason I'm into the hobby. And of course, marine fish are just so much cooler all around than freshwater, but FOWLR tanks looks... unnatural. So I definitely want a reef tank, but with a focus on the fish.

As a newbie, learning the ropes, I've been peeking in on lots of build threads to see how people are piecing everything together, common errors, etc, but time after time it seems that everyone has the same limited stocking list. A couple clowns, a yellow tang, a couple chromis, and a wrasse.

I realize some fish are not "reef safe," is there something I'm missing?

Are most people here in it for the corals or is there a concern about putting a heavy bioload on your tank that effects the coral growth?

If I want a fish dominated reef tank, is there something I have to be worried about?

Appreciate everyone's feedback.

 

[Kmsutows]

So this is going off experience as well as reading on here and other places and reading other experiences. I am no expert.

Bioload is definitely a concern if you want to keep corals healthy... I think a big difference though is with freshwater fish in a community tank just don't max out at a very large size. They are used to generally more confined streams or whatnot whereas many reef fish outgrow the average tank. Now these are grossly generalized comparisons but for your example of one tang, wrasse, a few chromis... in the wild you can find hundreds of tang together but one per species in a tank because it's so confined they won't tolerate eachother once they start to mature. Chronic stay on the smaller size and are cheap.. they generally do kill eachother off once adults. Wrasse are a bit different and vary greatly amongst different species but in many species they start off female and all turn male eventually and will not peacefully coexist (Which is why it drives me crazy when retailers sell them as pairs). This is a short, very generalized explanation in my opinion. Then again I have 22+ fish in my 150 gal.

 

[HairyGary]

First off welcome to Reef2Reef!

Kind of hard to answer and pinpoint but I think there are alot of reasons why people do what they do - some like to have many fish in their reef for movement etc, and others may prefer corals and keeping nutrients under control with less bioload. Additionally, tank size may be an issue for some folks. I think it comes down to maintaining nutrient loads and nutrient export for people and plainly, personal desires for equilibrium within the reef.

As far as fish selection, alot of people frequent their LFS at the beginning so I would say they start off with the chromis, Dori and the yellow tang and clowns as they are the fish that are readily available. Once you have those fish established and decide to upgrade they go with you.

Whatever way you decide to go, be patient and educate yourself before diving in. But also remember everyone makes mistakes and has had failures in this hobby, even the most experienced reefers. Good luck!

 

[Jay Duke]

I understand that tangs and wrasses can be aggressive towards each other in any normal sized tank, but was using that as an example as it seems most peoples stocking list is primarily based on function more than it is based on what kind of fish they want.

Just curious if there's a reason behind it or just if most reefer's focus is more on the coral than the fish.

 

[mch1984]

For me personally its about coral as much if not more than fish. With my freshwater, I agree that the fish are the centerpiece. With saltwater I enjoy growing coral, i want to make a frag tank just to grow stuff out.

 

[HB AL]

I don't have more fish because I'm well overstocked as it is, but it's working out great for all the inhabitants.
I have what I would consider a successful reef tank with lots of variety of corals and fish (15 fish) all housed by a 92g Cadlights. Ive always enjoyed fish more than the corals. The tank is in my bedroom so I have a basic setup of the tank and sump in the stand. In the sump all I have is a skimmer and rock. I have a lot of rock in the dt and because of my limited space(no fish room, basement) I think all the rock in the dt is the reason it works. This current tank has been running for 2.5 years, I added my last fish over a year ago and have only had 1 fish die, an anthias over 2 years ago. The bioload is pretty heavy as I feed my fish 8 cubes a day. This is a cell phone pic I just took, lights just came on an hour ago. The 15 fish are...
1 purple tang
1 yellow tang
1 blonde naso
1 hippo tang
1 gold spot rabbit
1 banghia cardinal
1 gold stripe maroon clown
1 tomato clown
1 sargassum trigger
1 bluethroat trigger
1 green coris wrasse
1 red coris wrasse
1 bicolor blenny
1 big damsel
1 squirrel fish

 

[HairyGary]

I don't have more fish because I'm well overstocked as it is, but it's working out great for all the inhabitants.
I have what I would consider a successful reef tank with lots of variety of corals and fish (15 fish) all housed by a 92g Cadlights. Ive always enjoyed fish more than the corals. The tank is in my bedroom so I have a basic setup of the tank and sump in the stand. In the sump all I have is a skimmer and rock. I have a lot of rock in the dt and because of my limited space(no fish room, basement) I think all the rock in the dt is the reason it works. This current tank has been running for 2.5 years, I added my last fish over a year ago and have only had 1 fish die, an anthias over 2 years ago. The bioload is pretty heavy as I feed my fish 8 cubes a day. This is a cell phone pic I just took, lights just came on an hour ago. The 15 fish are...
1 purple tang
1 yellow tang
1 blonde naso
1 hippo tang
1 gold spot rabbit
1 banghia cardinal
1 gold stripe maroon clown
1 tomato clown
1 sargassum trigger
1 bluethroat trigger
1 green coris wrasse
1 red coris wrasse
1 bicolor blenny
1 big damsel
1 squirrel fish

Looks great but holy Red Coris! 10in? and the maroon clown!

 

[ca1ore]

Why don't you have more fish in your tank?

How many would you deem to be acceptable? I've got close to 100 in my tank ..... is that enough? . Marine fish need more space than freshwater do; they're larger and generally more aggressive so swimming space is the first constraint. then of course nutrient management - more fish ..... more food .... more waste .... you get the idea!

 

[Jay Duke]

The 15 fish are...
1 purple tang
1 yellow tang
1 blonde naso
1 hippo tang
1 gold spot rabbit
1 banghia cardinal
1 gold stripe maroon clown
1 tomato clown
1 sargassum trigger
1 bluethroat trigger
1 green coris wrasse
1 red coris wrasse
1 bicolor blenny
1 big damsel

My experience with those fish is exclusively online or viewing at the LFS... but don't some of those get too big for a tank under 100g? Again, I'm only comparing this to what I've seen on LiveAquaria. Do you switch them out before they get full size?

 

[Jay Duke]

How many would you deem to be acceptable? I've got close to 100 in my tank ..... is that enough? . Marine fish need more space than freshwater do; they're larger and generally more aggressive so swimming space is the first constraint. then of course nutrient management - more fish ..... more food .... more waste .... you get the idea!

Hah, yes, 100 is lots. Likely I'd be going with anywhere between a 40B and a 90 or 120, likely... so I'm not looking for 100, but I don't know.. more than the 5 or 6 that I see frequently in build threads.

 

[Nuclear]

For me personally. While I want a couple clownfish, it’s the coral that mesmerized me! I think a well established reef with a few fish is perfect. But remember coral is alive, so it counts as a living thing. So theoretically there’s probably more living things in reef tanks than freshwater tanks. Plus snails, crabs, shrimp....

 

[Maritimer]

LOL - @ca1ore's tank is a bit bigger than what you're planning, but folks are right - these aren't neon tetras or even boesmani rainbows. Most of the fish we keep stake out and defend territories on the reef, so they will want to have a place to call "home" in your tank as well.

You can add more fish than many people do, but corals prefer relatively "clean" water, with lower nitrate levels - 5ppm is probably pretty good, but some folks shoot for less. If your nitrates are running above 20 or so, eyebrows will start to rise - although I've heard of folks who grow amazing corals in tanks with more than double that.

Plan carefully, and go slowly - add your most peaceful, laid-back or skittery fishes first, and slowly add more as you find that your tank can handle the load.

Welcome to the salty side!

~Bruce

 

[hockeyhead019]

I was confused by this at first as well... I think a lot of people have touched on this already but the biggest thing seems to be fish per swimming space. Even sticking with similar or the same species they don't seem to do well with a "crowded" tank. I think people tend to minimize due to the cost of losing fish it's easiest to go really slow and make sure that you don't run out of room too fast or unexpectedly. It could lead to a big tank crash.

 

[HB AL]

My experience with those fish is exclusively online or viewing at the LFS... but don't some of those get too big for a tank under 100g? Again, I'm only comparing this to what I've seen on LiveAquaria. Do you switch them out before they get full size?

Ive been keeping fish tanks for very long and wouldnt suggest what i have going to anyone new. Yes websites give a minimum tank size for fish but I go off past and 1st hand experience. Also for most fish they tend to slow down or stop there growth rate according to the size of the tank. The websites list the size fish can get to in the wild but even if my tank was 200, 300 or more gallons they would still not grow to the size they would in the ocean. In my tank they all get along and live healthy, stress free lives. The corals growing are just a bonus for me. Hope that made sense. Heres a pic with less blue light.

 

[Jay Duke]

Beautiful tank. I’d love to be able to get a couple tangs as they’re so active and entertaining to watch so definitely have my eye on a setup that could support that.

 

[TheBackAndForth]

Ive been keeping fish tanks for very long and wouldnt suggest what i have going to anyone new. Yes websites give a minimum tank size for fish but I go off past and 1st hand experience. Also for most fish they tend to slow down or stop there growth rate according to the size of the tank. The websites list the size fish can get to in the wild but even if my tank was 200, 300 or more gallons they would still not grow to the size they would in the ocean. In my tank they all get along and live healthy, stress free lives. The corals growing are just a bonus for me. Hope that made sense. Heres a pic with less blue light.

hahaha i have an 80 gallon reef with two occ clowns, 1 BT trigger, 1 yellow tang, 1 hawkfish, and 1 dwarf angel and worry about bioload. I will be adding another larger fish soon, however

EDIT: insanely cool tank dude

 

[ca1ore]

I was confused by this at first as well... I think a lot of people have touched on this already but the biggest thing seems to be fish per swimming space. Even sticking with similar or the same species they don't seem to do well with a "crowded" tank. I think people tend to minimize due to the cost of losing fish it's easiest to go really slow and make sure that you don't run out of room too fast or unexpectedly. It could lead to a big tank crash.

I think it depends a lot on the behavior of the fish. My clown pair, for example, rarely venture more than 6 inches from their host anemone. My 36 odd damsels all congregate in and around the larger coral colonies. The tangs, on the other hand, swim the full dimensions of the tank and are not appreciative of crowding at all. BUT, I have a 450 which allows me to do things I'd not dream of doing in a much smaller tank.

 

[Stigigemla]

Welcome to the reefing hobby.
The hobby stands on a few legs.
Fishes, Corals, other animals like crabs, snails, hermits or shrimps just to mention a few.
And for many reefers DIY.
Which one thats give most fun for the reefer is a matter of personal opinion but why miss one?

And about tank sizes: How would You think about living in such a small space that will not allow You to grow to adult length?

 

[TheBackAndForth]

Welcome to the reefing hobby.
The hobby stands on a few legs.
Fishes, Corals, other animals like crabs, snails, hermits or shrimps just to mention a few.
And for many reefers DIY.
Which one thats give most fun for the reefer is a matter of personal opinion but why miss one?

And about tank sizes: How would You think about living in such a small space that will not allow You to grow to adult length?

DIY is fun for a lot of us.

I do think the size concern is relative. For most fish, we are drastically altering their natural life, space, food, lifespan, size, chance to play the Darwinian game. Whether we have a 3, 4 or 6 foot tank doesnt really change that fact. We are altering nature and life no matter what.

In some ways, the only animal suited for home aquaria is a captive bred clown

 

[hart24601]

It can be really tough to manage the bioload and nutrients with a high bioload and with coral.

In the USA freshwater is cheap. I have daily 20% automated waterchanges on my FW tanks, as do many people that have monster fw tanks and fish like rays. Growing out discus I was doing 2x 90% waterchanges every day.

Saltwater is far more expensive to do large changes, we use equipment for a large extent but if you have a 100g tank and need to feed 10 frozen cubes a day, or even 20, that is a lot of export like phosphate vs FW simple waterchange or a entire display of plants with co2 that grow inches every couple days.