Why so many problems

[Paul B]

I started a thread exactly like this a long time ago, but I can't find it.
Every time I go on here, or any forum, I just hit "New Posts" and probably 90% of the threads are about problems of some kind and there is a plethora of posts giving advice to correct those problems. I shy away from many of those threads because much of the advice I perceive as wrong and after so many years, I really don't feel like argueing. I am getting old.
A good percentage of the posts are about some sort of spots on some creature, usually a tang, then of course someone will say, well that is an ich magnet so it can't be helped and they say to add garlic, kick ich, cleaner shrimp, hyposalinity, Vodka, Gin and Tonic, or just let the fish watch Oprah Winfrey. In my opinion, none of those things will work, but I try to stay quiet. If you think garlic or cleaner shrimp will cure anything, go for it.
People PM me all the time and ask a specific problem. I don't know why, maybe they think I am part fish, or I look like a fish or worse, smell like a fish, but they do ask me. I usually advise them that diet is the most important thing in this hobby and it may not cure anything, but it will get your fish in such a state of health in a couple of weeks that you may never have to post in a disease forum. Then they may say, great, but I can't get that, so can I just feed flakes? I say, no, and that is the end of the conversation. Then I see that poster on the disease forums again. It happens all the time.
Now, I am not the God of fish or anything else, I am a retired electrician, but if you ask for someone's advice, the person giving the advice will assume you will use at least some of it. There is no magic pill but many people make this a lot harder than it has to be. :fear:
Then there is the sterility factor. Virtually all of your animals, except some designer clownfish, came from the sea. It is the same sea that is right off Florida or Bayone New jersey. The sea is not sterile and neither should your tank. If you keep everything sterile and never add anything from the sea, your fish will be like that boy in the bubble where he can't be exposed to any sort of bacteria or virus or he will die. Fish, like us, need to be exposed to these things to become immune from them. We Humans get inoculated with weak forms of these diseases to protect us from them. Fish also need to be exposed to certain things to build up an immunity.
When I go to Mexico, I get sick, the Mexican people do not get sick, guess why? In my own tank my fish are immune to almost everything (except jumping out or Rap music) How do I know? (I know, most of you are saying, I am lucky and my tank will crash by Tuesday) No it won't. But if it does, it had a good run. I feel that it is the diet and the lack of sterility that keeps it going. Luck has little to do with it. I have been trying to date a Supermodel all my life and never got lucky with that, so I know I am not lucky. uke:
I get in trouble all the time when I say something like "Ich may, in some instances be good for your fish". Now don't go putting ich in your tank, although I can. Your fish can become immune from it, in time, if you feed them correctly. Pellets and flakes is not correct. I know many, if not all of you will disagree with me, that is fine, but lets hear how you keep fish spawning for 20 or so years. I know there are many theories and we all have our own secrets, these are mine. What are yours?
On another forum someone asked if the lifespan of gobies was just a few months? I guess that person can't keep them more than a couple of months. :bounce:

 

[philr]

dear sir please dont knock bayonne or nj. however you are on to something. yes just ask orson welles but germs are around us all the time. it saved us from martians per mr welles book. i also agree that small doses of germs make us stronger. i believe that is the basis for vaccinations. i also agree with you health and diet go hand in hand. like you i am not lucky, never dated a super model, and i always wanted to be an electrician. bottom line here is not to aviod germs and bacteria, but to keep the fish healthy with proper living conditions and of course diet. ohh and dont expect many fish to survive the water conditions around bayonne.

 

[Paul B]

dear sir please dont knock bayonne or nj.

Actually I thought it was a compliment as I referred it to have the same water as the places where our fish are collected.

. yes just ask orson welles but germs are around us all the time. it saved us from martians per mr welles book.

War of the Worlds, the original, not the Tom Cruise one was one of my favorite books and movies. And yes, bacteria, or microbes killed the Aliens. I think they were Martians.

ohh and dont expect many fish to survive the water conditions around bayonne.

Don't be to sure of that. My tank was started with water from the western Long Island Sound right near Manhattan.
My early water source, not many corals around the East River

 

[cymaster007]

I think youve got it squared away, one of our club members Al is a licensed marine biologist and has spent a few years studying crypt irritants in particular and everything you said he presented to our club. So you dont need to be a marine biologist to understand basics of immune systems and diseases. He said #1 thing you can do is get your fish fat, healthy, and make sure to keep it low on its stress levels. Those are the #1 things to help prevent getting so overwhelmed by the diseases in the tank they perish. The other method that works really well we all recommend around here is the tank-transfer method (for ich in particular) it is tedious but lowers the amount of parasites the fish brings with it into your tank.

If the disease is already in your tank, fish can take months for it to develop immunity/resistance to the parasite but it is not a permanent immunity just enough resistance to balance out the fish & disease ratio in your tank. Anything that causes imbalance in the fish's health may tip the scales back into the diseases favor and it can overwhelm your livestock.

 

[philr]

we share similar tastes in books. when i was young my father used to take us swimming in sheepshead bay and coney island. i survived so i suppose fish would as well. again i believe your post is accurate that people as well as fish would not do well without any germs or bacteria. so follow good diet, and consistent living conditions and good health will follow. say hello to ny - i sometimes miss it.

 

[Paul B]

one of our club members Al is a licensed marine biologist

Didn't realize marine biologists had to be licensed. Do you have to take a road test for that?
Anyway, I have been saying this for many years. As I said I learned very early the value of live food, freeze dried is not the answer, nor is frozen bloodworms which are not worms. I got my blue devils to start to spawn in 1972 just by feeding live worms. nithing else. I have never posted on a disease forum and my tank is older than many members here and it is all just because of live food such as worms. You can quarantine if you like, but while you do that, get your fish into breeding shape and you also won't have to post on a disease forum. :fear:

 

[Paul B]

when i was young my father used to take us swimming in sheepshead bay and coney island.

I was born in Bensonhurst right on the border with Coney Island and also used to swim there

 

[Mike in CT]

Local LFS just posted "Live Black Worms!" on their facebook page. Think I might be getting me some worms
this weekend! Any feeding guide line for the worms as how much to feed??

Thanks Paul!

 

[jonny]

if you ask for someone's advice, the person giving the advice will assume you will use at least some of it.

I know this feeling ALL too well..as an IT support tech, I pretty much give advice for a living, and this feeling is probably 98% responsible for my drinking habit lol. "Feed your fish well" goes with "STOP. CLICKING. On emails that you're not expecting" It's Such a simple task, but for some reason people still think they know better than you.....even though they're going to you for advice haha..

And as for making this harder than it should be..I agree entirely..I consider myself a lazy reefer..yet my tank does just as good/better than locals who are constantly screwing with stuff...if it's not broken..just let it be. Haha

 

[Paul B]

Here is a short video eating worms. I also feed clams or frozen Mysis. Clams and worms are good because they are an entire animal and the nutrition is mostly in the guts. When fish in the sea eat another fish, as they usually do if they can't afford KFC, they do not spit out the guts or bones, it is all used. Every fish in that video, except the copperband is spawning and that fireclown is 20

 

[Paul B]

And as for making this harder than it should be..I agree entirely..I consider myself a lazy reefer..yet my tank does just as good/better than locals who are constantly screwing with stuff...if it's not broken..just let it be

I am also a lazy reefer. I only change water five times a year, I have no test kits, controllers or dosers, I only feed those 3 or 4 foods, and rarely have to do anything to the tank besides clean the glass. But I do hatch brine shrimp every day and I also have to go any buy worms.

 

[philr]

how does the copper band do around the corals?

 

[Paul B]

There has almost always been at least one copperband in there since the late 70s. They come from coral reefs as I have dove with them in the South Pacific. Copperbands should be fed worms as that is what they eat on the reefs.One of my favorite fish. I took this in Bora Bora, one of the Tahitian Islands, long nose butterflies are very similar to copperbands