Why the disparity in LED ratios between big brands?!

[ATXreefer]

I'm having a hard time understanding why some of the big name lights have such different ratios in LED selection, specifically in the blue range. Looking at a couple of the big name brands (ATI Straton and Ecotech pro) you can see that they're blue ratios are substantially different;
XR15 pro ratio of RB (450nm)/B (470nm) is 2:1
Straton's ratio of 450nm/470nm is 1:2

Can someone explain to me why leading brands like these, who are presumably experts in building the best lights for growing coral, have substantially differing LED mixes? My understanding is that there are known absorption peaks and it seems like these light manufacturers would have near identical spectrums/diode mixes to each other. What am I missing? Am I overthinking this?

 

[Jekyl]

They're made for the benefit of the reefer rather than the coral. Bells, whistles, color schemes and apps are all for us. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone just run T5 or halide?

 

[ATXreefer]

To be fair, I think there are pros/cons to T5/Halide/LED. So is it fair to say you're telling me the manufacturers have different diode mixes based on how they want the lights to look to us visually as opposed to being what they believe will grow corals the best?

 

[oreo54]

I'm having a hard time understanding why some of the big name lights have such different ratios in LED selection, specifically in the blue range. Looking at a couple of the big name brands (ATI Straton and Ecotech pro) you can see that they're blue ratios are substantially different;
XR15 pro ratio of RB (450nm)/B (470nm) is 2:1
Straton's ratio of 450nm/470nm is 1:2

Can someone explain to me why leading brands like these, who are presumably experts in building the best lights for growing coral, have substantially differing LED mixes? My understanding is that there are known absorption peaks and it seems like these light manufacturers would have near identical spectrums/diode mixes to each other. What am I missing? Am I overthinking this?

Do you know how many different colored mh' s there once were.

Product Review: Spectral Analysis of 400 Watt Mogul Metal Halide Lamps: Ushio 14000K, Icecap 400W Series, Elios 10000K

This article presents the last of the 400W mogul lamps tested.

reefs.com

Not to mention different spectrums or spectral intensity on different ballasts?

Soo no such thing as a "perfect" spectrum...

Too many biological variables.

 

[Jekyl]

As far as I know (could be wrong) Kessil was the only one I've seen advertising the best blend. That was before the new ones that allow everyone to play with the spectrums. Hence the countless posts of people asking for LED lighting schedules and settings. While everyone running T5 or halide just says look how good my corals grow.

 

[Midrats]

The Europeans prefer a less blue, more natural look hence why Coral Care and Straton have less blue diodes.

 

[mdb_talon]

There is no perfect answer that fits all corals.

So is it fair to say you're telling me the manufacturers have different diode mixes based on how they want the lights to look to us visually as opposed to being what they believe will grow corals the best?

Yes i would say that and makes perfect sense.

 

[ATXreefer]

Do you know how many different colored mh' s there once were.

Product Review: Spectral Analysis of 400 Watt Mogul Metal Halide Lamps: Ushio 14000K, Icecap 400W Series, Elios 10000K

This article presents the last of the 400W mogul lamps tested.

reefs.com

Not to mention different spectrums or spectral intensity on different ballasts?

Soo no such thing as a "perfect" spectrum...

Too many biological variables.

I guess you're right. I've seen many agree 6500k bulbs are the best for growing coral (SPS at least), yet most halide lit tanks use a bluer bulb than that for a more pleasurable viewing experience. Didn't consider that.

 

[Hugster78]

As far as I know (could be wrong) Kessil was the only one I've seen advertising the best blend. That was before the new ones that allow everyone to play with the spectrums. Hence the countless posts of people asking for LED lighting schedules and settings. While everyone running T5 or halide just says look how good my corals grow.

That’s why I run T5 with or3 bars now. Don’t fix what’s working for decades. All the control from the leds got me in trouble. Changing everything monthly. Plug and play for me

 

[reefGoat]

Can someone explain to me why leading brands like these, who are presumably experts in building the best lights for growing coral, have substantially differing LED mixes?

I think your first mistake is assuming these companies are experts at anything other than selling lights.

The other issue is, I don't think there is a consensus on "best" spectrum. Chlorophyll A peaks around 430nm I believe but many other chemicals get in on the photosynthesis action. It's likely that a broad spectrum is greater than the sum of it's parts.

If you want to cover all the bases find a light with the widest spectrum between 400 and 470nm with just enough red and green to be pleasing to the eye.

 

[ATXreefer]

I think you first mistake is assuming these companies are experts at anything other than selling lights.

LOL I got a kick out of this!

 

[damsels are not mean]

I'm having a hard time understanding why some of the big name lights have such different ratios in LED selection, specifically in the blue range. Looking at a couple of the big name brands (ATI Straton and Ecotech pro) you can see that they're blue ratios are substantially different;
XR15 pro ratio of RB (450nm)/B (470nm) is 2:1
Straton's ratio of 450nm/470nm is 1:2

Can someone explain to me why leading brands like these, who are presumably experts in building the best lights for growing coral, have substantially differing LED mixes? My understanding is that there are known absorption peaks and it seems like these light manufacturers would have near identical spectrums/diode mixes to each other. What am I missing? Am I overthinking this?

Because everyone has different aesthetic tastes.

 

[design.maddie]

dang and no one has brough up RedSea ReefLEDs?

 

[Spare time]

I'm having a hard time understanding why some of the big name lights have such different ratios in LED selection, specifically in the blue range. Looking at a couple of the big name brands (ATI Straton and Ecotech pro) you can see that they're blue ratios are substantially different;
XR15 pro ratio of RB (450nm)/B (470nm) is 2:1
Straton's ratio of 450nm/470nm is 1:2

Can someone explain to me why leading brands like these, who are presumably experts in building the best lights for growing coral, have substantially differing LED mixes? My understanding is that there are known absorption peaks and it seems like these light manufacturers would have near identical spectrums/diode mixes to each other. What am I missing? Am I overthinking this?

They are not necessarily experts on light. Some work at it far more rhan others. For example, some brands brag how their light matches chlorophyll B peaks, yet if they did one google search they would find that coral zooxanthellae doesn't have chlorophyll B



People also have different preferences. Just like t5 bulbs, you can buy different arrays of led's for your setup



Also, shout out to the t5 and MH supremacists that think they have to used every lighting thread to discuss their "superiority"

 

[oreo54]

Also, shout out to the t5 and MH supremacists that think they have to used every lighting thread to discuss their "superiority"

LOL.....

As to chlorophyll peaks, in vivo and in vitro measurements aren' t usually the same anyways.
Good thing its a range ..

 

[Nano sapiens]

What also should be stated is that corals by nature have to be adaptable when it comes to lighting spectrum (a few meters depth difference, or the turbidity of the water will change the spectrum received...sometimes drastically). This gives lighting manufacturers quite a bit of lee way to create a pleasant light field for us, the viewer, as long as they hit certain nanometer peaks required for the health of zooxanthellate corals.

 

[Yodeling]

Imho it’s a crapshoot. Manufacturers use the spectrum that is “trendy” among hobbyists. For instance, the overabundance of violet and “uv” nowadays is a direct result of consumers thinking that this spectrum is good for growing corals. There is no definitive proof of this, but nobody will buy lights without “uv”. It’s all marketing.

 

[design.maddie]

Imho it’s a crapshoot. Manufacturers use the spectrum that is “trendy” among hobbyists. For instance, the overabundance of violet and “uv” nowadays is a direct result of consumers thinking that this spectrum is good for growing corals. There is no definitive proof of this, but nobody will buy lights without “uv”. It’s all marketing.

I believe UV diodes come from horticulture grow bulbs.

 

[oreo54]

I believe UV diodes come from horticulture grow bulbs.

Actually the 2 seemed to evolve together
One might argue it was used in reef tanks first due to the success of mh's and their uv component.
It along w/ the broad use of " uv" for anything bluer than royal blue has been a selling point for awhile. Early kessils were one of the few leds with true uv. Amounts emitted were judged as low output.
Some diodes < 420nm do output some uv since their spectrum is a wee bit wide.


As to terrestrials it helps in ways that are atm unimportant in coral culture but caution is advised. The science isn't evolved enough to make real conclusions.

Current " theory" ( right or wrong) is a sort of "surface sterilization" effect or alteration of ancillary organisms though in line sterilizers would fix water column born ones ( as I understand it) so different from using in line uv.
As in terrestrials it is possible though not proven that uv can create byproducts to protect things from disease or predation as well.
Again, no proof with corals but some proof in crops
including creating compounds to inhibit grazing by predators.

Some believe the rise of certain issues not so prevalent in the past is due to this lack of true uv .

As an outside observer I'm not convinced.

T5 only tanks have only low levels of uv a so the same issue would possibly be present with them.

Once some inherent issues w/ uv diodes are solved ( lifespan, output efficiency, cost, uv transparent lenses, ect) more will probably be added to premium fixtures just " because"...
Many issues above are being solved.
Thanks to horticulture, industry and things like Covid the desire to solve them increases.
[ quote]
Like other solid-state devices, LEDs offer a long lifetime if used properly. If engineered correctly, these semiconductor devices last beyond 40,000 hours of operating time unlike traditional UV lamps.

. Not to long ago lifespan was considerably shorter.

LED UV System Lifetime - Phoseon Technology

Phoseon products offer a long LED UV system lifetime due to our patented and proprietary technology for UV curing. Learn more.

phoseon.com

Keep in mind the level of uv being helpful vs harmful is undefined and successful tanks with no uv ( or tiny amounts of uv a) are plentiful apparently. And the "class" (a,b,c) and nm range of uv needs to be considered.

If one wants to test the theory best to buy or build a uv suppliment bar than worry about how much uv is in their primary leds. At least for now.

Keep in mind all uv has some bad effects on humans.

So another " point" where manuf can diverge in their err "spectral philosophies" to sort of stay on topic...

 

[design.maddie]

Actually the 2 seemed to evolve together
One might argue it was used in reef tanks first due to the success of mh's and their uv component.
It along w/ the broad use of " uv" for anything bluer than royal blue has been a selling point for awhile. Early kessils were one of the few leds with true uv. Amounts emitted were judged as low output.
Some diodes < 420nm do output some uv since their spectrum is a wee bit wide.


As to terrestrials it helps in ways that are atm unimportant in coral culture but caution is advised. The science isn't evolved enough to make real conclusions.

Current " theory" ( right or wrong) is a sort of "surface sterilization" effect or alteration of ancillary organisms though in line sterilizers would fix water column born ones ( as I understand it) so different from using in line uv.
As in terrestrials it is possible though not proven that uv can create byproducts to protect things from disease or predation as well.
Again, no proof with corals but some proof in crops
including creating compounds to inhibit grazing by predators.

Some believe the rise of certain issues not so prevalent in the past is due to this lack of true uv .

As an outside observer I'm not convinced.

T5 only tanks have only low levels of uv a so the same issue would possibly be present with them.

Once some inherent issues w/ uv diodes are solved ( lifespan, output efficiency, cost, uv transparent lenses, ect) more will probably be added to premium fixtures just " because"...
Many issues above are being solved.
Thanks to horticulture, industry and things like Covid the desire to solve them increases.
[ quote]
Like other solid-state devices, LEDs offer a long lifetime if used properly. If engineered correctly, these semiconductor devices last beyond 40,000 hours of operating time unlike traditional UV lamps.

I completely forgot about needing/requiring glass to protect your eyes from the UV put off by MH. I sure do miss my MHs.