Why would you ever want a refugium?

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

@Rakie I think you'll find this discussion interesting

 

[warlocktitan]

Refugium is very simple, don't get too much ideas to convolute your thoughts.
Allow me put it in simple way, growing macroalgae is a natural way to export nutrients provide you have it setup with good lighting for the whole process work properly.
It is a natural way of nutrient competition between species, refugium is a smart way to locally have macroalgae out of your DT to do the job.
When you have macroalgae going in the refugium, it's a simple way to start a mini ecosystem where all kinds of critters such as amphipods, copepods, ... filter feeders work in tandem to take care the excess nutrients.
As refugium age with your tank it's getting better and it will always be so there is no negative impact to your tank as you describe theoretically if you follow simple methods.
I am sure there is lots of posts that people has done before here that you can follow.

 

[SoCalVictor]

Adding another consideration/question to the topic. If our corals feed off of nutrients, does having a refugium compete with that and become counter-productive to their health?

 

[jason2459]

A bit off topic but some people keep macro for the sake of housing and growing pod numbers.

I'm with this post. My /refugium is my "bio" filter and the very largest part of my sump taking up over half of a 40g breeder. It grows whatever. I don't touch it. Detritus mud bottom and all. I used to do macro but love my Turbo's aquatics ATS now. It also a @Paul B inspired reverse under gravel filter. Pods of many many kinds thrive along with all kinds of other organisms.

Favorite past time is pulling out samples from my sump and ATS to put under the microscope. That's the best part of it. Who cares about food or nutrients I feed my main tank plenty for that.

 

[aqua_code]

I was watching an episode of MelevsReef and he mentions that the skimmer removes DOC's.

I think that's also a factor here - the skimmer is removing these toxins from the aquarium.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

A refuge is connected to the system, the display. The flow rate can be managed. No way a refuge is able to outcompete the display for nutrients unless if one wants it. A refuge can be used for many things, not only as an algae filter. It can be used as a full bio removing ammonium-nitrogen from the system by just hanging some BADES-rols in it, or a semi-bio for nitrification and or denitrification, for assimilation and removal by harvesting. Anyway used, the contribution of processes within a refuge can easily be managed which means a lot of processes now taking place in the display, influencing parameters, may mainly take place in the refuge and corrections can be made before the treathed water returns to the display. Ever system should have a refuge and not only for easy management.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

I was watching an episode of MelevsReef and he mentions that the skimmer removes DOC's.

I think that's also a factor here - the skimmer is removing these toxins from the aquarium.

I think we mistakenly refer to DOC as dissolved organic content (which is POC I think), and that’s what the skimmer removes. DOC is extremely small matter (photosynthesis byproducts, etc) and I’m not sure if foam fractioning would remove that effectively.

Someone please correct me if wrong.

 

[lapin]

Wood for the fire

Carbon Dosing
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf

Increased DOC causes bleaching
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.3830

Algae DOC:
https://peerj.com/articles/108/?utm_source=TrendMD&amputm_campaign=PeerJ_TrendMD_0&utm_medium=TrendMD
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027973
https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol201642

 

[Phycodurus]

this reminds me of the series of videos that BRS TV made linking most effective light source with best nutrient reduction. great set of videos to watch!


Testing Refugium Part I: What we found about PAR and refugium size! (03/17/2017)



Testing Refugium Part II: What really happened and what's next? (04/14/2017)



Testing Refugium Part III : Taking Chaeto to the Next Level (07/21/2017)



What does it take to light a refugium effectively? (09/08/2017)



[btw, how to get a youtube hyperlink to show up only as text and not an image? TIA]

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I think we mistakenly refer to DOC as dissolved organic content (which is POC I think), and that’s what the skimmer removes. DOC is extremely small matter (photosynthesis byproducts, etc) and I’m not sure if foam fractioning would remove that effectively.

Someone please correct me if wrong.

DOC are Dissolved Organic Compounds or Dissolved Organic Carbon as organics contain carbon. DOC Is part of TOC. A skimmer is able to remove +- 30% of TOC but very selective leaving polar and hydrophilic compounds behind.
Most toxins may be removed as they are amphipatic, they have a hydrophobic and a hydrophilic part. We could not find information about the removal rate of produced toxins. The neurotoxin BMAA is classified as a polar base and is most likely NOT skimmed out. From an other dangerous neurotoxin, saxotines, 65 different compositions are known and a skimmer may or may not remove them depending of the composition.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Adding another consideration/question to the topic. If our corals feed off of nutrients, does having a refugium compete with that and become counter-productive to their health?

If nutrients are in short supply, yes. Many, if not most Reef tanks do not have nutrients too low without some sort of effort to reduce them. Mine never did, and I ran multiple export methods simultaneously, including refugia.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think we mistakenly refer to DOC as dissolved organic content (which is POC I think), and that’s what the skimmer removes. DOC is extremely small matter (photosynthesis byproducts, etc) and I’m not sure if foam fractioning would remove that effectively.

Someone please correct me if wrong.

Many dissolved organic compounds are skimmable. Some may not be, and not all particulates are removed either.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Adding another consideration/question to the topic. If our corals feed off of nutrients, does having a refugium compete with that and become counter-productive to their health?

I do not think so as you are the manager of the the system. You can manage the flow rate to and from the refuge. If used as an algae scrubber you can also harvest.

 

[hart24601]

I think it's pretty hard to extrapolate what happenes on real reefs to our little cubes in our houses. Not that some isn't relevant, but there is so much fundamentally different we need to keep it in mind. Not that it's good or bad, just different. Even in our tiny reefs how many run combinations of skimmers, mechanical filtration, UV, activated carbon, gfo, algae fuges, carbon dose, ozone, peroxide, amino acids, and the grace elements from what people feed their reefs. It's really remarkable we can keep coral at all as all those combinations seem to work and even using none of those.

I would say the ideas of a fuge out competing the display for algae or starving algae out as concepts seem to be falling out of favor and it seems most display algae-free systems are achieved by using grazers or a lack of surface attachment areas. That is of course before algae takes over and if nutrients/husbandry are reasonable which the fuge algae and other export mechanisms keep from getting too high.