Will NH3 be converted to NH4?

[jcosta98]

Hi guys,

Have the question in the title, as I'm cycling a new tank and currently have 0.05ppm NH3 and wondering if it will be converted in NH4 or can only be removed by a water change,

thank you a lot!

 

[DocRose]

Hi guys,

Have the question in the title, as I'm cycling a new tank and currently have 0.05ppm NH3 and wondering if it will be converted in NH4 or can only be removed by a water change,

thank you a lot!

If you’re talking about what I THINK you’re talking about…ammonia…yes it can be converted into NO2 (nitrite) but only if you’ve introduced beneficial bacteria somehow (seed rock, live sand, bottled bacteria, etc). It doesn’t just grow from nothing.

Have you done your research on how to cycle a saltwater tank?

 

[jcosta98]

Hi , yes I know how to cycle a tank , my question was regarding Free amonia vs its ionised form

 

[brandon429]

That is the lowest your test kit can read, it means you are in the safe zone


the nh4 of .5 converts to that nh3 level at the pH we run, as I read in the chemistry forum, that level you report is what most matured reefs run at when measuring on non digital gear, it’s a perfect measure

i bet your cycle is done. How many days has it had water, and how many days to completion is on the label of bottle bac used


if you were to read every api ammonia reading taken and posted on matured reefs, years old, the ratio breaks down in posts like this:

75% will always show .25 TAN

20% will report .5 at all times

5% report zero


100% of the tanks are at .005 / in the thousandths, but not reporting via seneye. That’s how nh3 works in the hobby

*blanking a sample as zero hard yellow on drinking water means nothing about your tanks ammonia, that’s apples to oranges

the test kits simply don’t report accurately where nitrification is present, that’s the truth. Matured reefs that overwhelmingly post .25 via api have never been seen running that on a tuned seneye, not even during the cycle.

 

[jcosta98]

That is the lowest your test kit can read, it means you are in the safe zone


the nh4 of .5 converts to that nh3 level at the pH we run, as I read in the chemistry forum, that level you report is what most matured reefs run at when measuring on non digital gear, it’s a perfect measure

i bet your cycle is done. How many days has it had water, and how many days to completion is on the label of bottle bac used

Hi , I used Bacto Blend by Fauna Marin , bottle doesn't specify when the cycle ends and recommends a continuous use of this product through the aquarium life . 15 days since cycle started

Currently reading :

0.05 NH3 ( this is free amonia)
0 nitrites
5 Nitrates

 

[brandon429]

I’m 100% sure the cycle is done at fifteen days after adding anyone’s bottle bac, plus your ammonia is in the safe zone. Fish disease is the real risk, not establishment of a biofilter. That part is done

every brand of bac tested by Dr Reef was done by day fifteen, yours will follow suit.

consider the ammonia line on any cycling chart, see how its dropped by day fifteen on all charts ever made even from books fifty years ago, solid confirmation. Choose a disease protocol before adding fish, which you can now add provided common rock surface area was in the tank the whole time, taking on bacteria. The end time for your cycle has passed, choose how you want to use your filtration. A large water change may or may not impact that reading but the levels are safe nonetheless. Even the seachem badges aren’t immune to reading high in some systems that are well past cycled the main factor for you to consider is the # of days underwater compared to a cycling chart.

 

[Dan_P]

Hi guys,

Have the question in the title, as I'm cycling a new tank and currently have 0.05ppm NH3 and wondering if it will be converted in NH4 or can only be removed by a water change,

thank you a lot!

How are you measuring free ammonia?

If your measurement is valid, your system has roughly 0.5 ppm total ammonia. Your system may not be ready for livestock.

 

[brandon429]

Also if possible post a full tank shot, sometimes we get lucky and there's new growths over the rock or sand, those help in assessment as well. At other times it's bone white scape, can't tell much by looking

 

[jcosta98]

I'm measuring through Seachem Ammonia Alert, I have another reef tank and tested the free ammonia as <0.02 ppm , which should be the reading when I finish my cycle. Maybe I added too much ammonia during cycle ( I ghost fed maybe heavy ) ?

Also if possible post a full tank shot, sometimes we get lucky and there's new growths over the rock or sand, those help in assessment as well. At other times it's bone white scape, can't tell much by looking

I'm running a cycle with no lights, only growth is a little white fuzz around the rocks ,

Thank you

 

[jcosta98]

One thing , it's bare bottom , so a lot less surface area

 

[brandon429]

Can we see pics of the setup in white light

 

[Lasse]

NH3/NH4 complex has a mainly pH and temperature relationship. In this tool you can see how they are depending on each other and pH at a given temperature

This is the classical picture of their relationship from this thread

Sincerely Lasse

 

[DrZoidburg]

+1 Is a matter of ph because of deprotonation. Ammonia is a weak base in water.

 

[brandon429]

post the full tank pic in white light pls if possible we never got to shore up visual cues if any + unstated details

 

[DrZoidburg]

In some kits they measure both NH3 and NH4 total combined. This could be the case.

 

[jcosta98]

I will get a Ph test since I don't own one, here is a pic of the tank . Already talked to a reefer that had a similar experience in his bare bottom tank cycling , took 6 weeks to get the system with free ammonia < 0.02ppm , he think it was caused by ammonia overdose, what I already thought I did. here is a pic of the tank you can't see anything special:

 

[brandon429]

Hey thats one heck of a barren scape w no visual cues whatsoever

was hoping you had the golden diatoms or cyano or some other visual slam dunk.

 

[brandon429]

One handy way to proof the system is to do a large water change causing known clean water around the rocks, then take an ammonia reading and post the actual pic of the vial, this is calibrated zero. Dose in liquid ammonia only a few drops nothing too much, take a second test and post that pic to see if the test can even register trace additions


then a third pic tomorrow to see if test goes back to calibrated zero from the tiny amount added. If the second pic can’t even pick up a few drops of ammonia concentrate then the test is suspect and not the cycle. If it can pick up the change from baseline, then your third pic will tell lots about the bacteria.

 

[jcosta98]

Hey thats one heck of a barren scape w no visual cues whatsoever

was hoping you had the golden diatoms or cyano or some other visual slam dunk.

It shows very little life because I'm still running it without light yet, I only have a white fuzz around the rocks.


I previously tested adding too much food to see if the test changes colour, it went to 0.2ppm free ammonia and after a day or two came back to showing 0.05 ppm. I will wait a few more days to see if the reading moves to < 0.02

 

[brandon429]

we cant know anything using food it must be clean fast liquid ammonia. food has a decay slope vs liquid ammonia/instant read ability.


if you dont have access to cycling ammonia then the absolute best way to know your ready date is off the directions from the bottle bac, they average about ten days wait. however many days the bac said it takes is what it will take, and non digital testers plus degradational ammonia may not agree though that method still feeds bacteria just fine.

in fact based on all the recent studies from Dr. Reef, Taricha and Dan et al using feed will beat liquid ammonia feeding anyway because its got carbon in it vs just environmental carbon access when folks use only ammonia


liquid ammonia however is an unbeatable cycle verifier though when accessible.

once you meet the # of days from the label of the bottle bac then you can begin reefing, as that # of days is probably also in line with an ammonia line off any common cycling chart, ie 10-12 days.