Will SPS be okay in these params?

[Zbutcher]

Take your pick. My nitrates routinely run between 30 and 80.

Absolutely beautiful tank man. I need your green thumb. Idk what to do and I'm at a loss and really apathetic and frustrated. I'm not going to quit but it's a big buzz kill especially because I cannot figure it out.

 

[jda]

I do think I'm going to dial back the feeding for sure. I haven't been going crazy but I don't think feeding everyday is necessary ATM.

Feeding your fish and the fish producing waste is the only thing that for-sure gets your corals nitrogen, and other things. Microalgae cannot use nitrate and too few hosts can convert nitrate back to a usable form of nitrogen... and those that can come at a large cost of 40-70% extra energy. In times when corals are suffering, cutting back on import can do even more damage. Increase the export.

 

[Zbutcher]

Feeding your fish and the fish producing waste is the only thing that for-sure gets your corals nitrogen, and other things. Microalgae cannot use nitrate and too few hosts can convert nitrate back to a usable form of nitrogen... and those that can come at a large cost of 40-70% extra energy. In times when corals are suffering, cutting back on import can do even more damage. Increase the export.

Oh really? Well that's a fair enough argument! Then I'll up the export! Although I do think a while sheet of Nori may have been overkill hahaha. Maybe do one every few days. But I did 1 a day because of the amount of algaevores

 

[jda]

Nitrate is not coral food. Not even close. Coral and zoox will need to get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium and through bacteria that they can catch in their slime coats, if any - some corals can catch some food, but most acropora are not really good at this. This mostly mean that zoox get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium.

Just a trace of nitrate is all that corals need, but more might not hurt depending on what coral/type/individual. My sand bed and rock keep mine constantly around .1 nitrate, which is just enough to keep everything moving forward and is not growth limiting.

Food waste should be addressed, but keep your fish well fed for happy corals. It is OK to have some waste for your shrimp, crabs, etc to eat since they won't be happy just eating fish poop, but this should not be excessive either.

Microalgae can use nitrate directly. Most don't want this. Macroalgae can also get nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium, so there really isn't any need to get nitrate up to lower phosphates with a fuge, either. Just a trace of nitrate is fine. If you have dinos or cyano issue, then raising nitrate can growth limit these on the high end, along with higher phosphates - this is a different type of discussion since it has nothing to do with getting building blocks to corals.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Hey everyone,

I have had this tank now for about 9 months now alk sits 9-9.3. calcium sits 400-450. Mag sit 1300-1350.

I did an ICP test and there is not anything alarming and Randy holmes-farley said there isn't anything outstanding.

I only use RODI water

I checked my nitrates and phosphate with the Hanna checkers and nitrate is 56 and phosphate is .09.

I have notoriously had STN with all SPS but I'm not sure why and that was why I did an ICP test. So I think at the time it was low nutrients but now I shouldn't have that problem

Do you think SPS would be okay now? Thoughts? Thanks.

1+ to nitrates too high. What is ph and how stable is it?

 

[Zbutcher]

Nitrate is not coral food. Not even close. Coral and zoox will need to get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium and through bacteria that they can catch in their slime coats, if any - some corals can catch some food, but most acropora are not really good at this. This mostly mean that zoox get their nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium.

Just a trace of nitrate is all that corals need, but more might not hurt depending on what coral/type/individual. My sand bed and rock keep mine constantly around .1 nitrate, which is just enough to keep everything moving forward and is not growth limiting.

Food waste should be addressed, but keep your fish well fed for happy corals. It is OK to have some waste for your shrimp, crabs, etc to eat since they won't be happy just eating fish poop, but this should not be excessive either.

Microalgae can use nitrate directly. Most don't want this. Macroalgae can also get nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium, so there really isn't any need to get nitrate up to lower phosphates with a fuge, either. Just a trace of nitrate is fine. If you have dinos or cyano issue, then raising nitrate can growth limit these on the high end, along with higher phosphates - this is a different type of discussion since it has nothing to do with getting building blocks to corals.

That makes a ton of sense thank you.

It is interesting my tank has 0 algae cyano or Dino's. I have 2 bulkheads where the water goes down to the sump (HOB overflow). Anyways one Is plumbed right into a refugium area where I keep all my live rock. The other goes right into a filter sock. If you think I should have all the water going through a filter sock let me know. I also have an algae scrubber and skimmer.

 

[Zbutcher]

1+ to nitrates too high. What is ph and how stable is it?

Yeah I'll do another water change here in a few days. It's probably best if I do once a week again. a few months ago my nitrates were 0 and phos was 0 and that's when the corals were dying so I was taking extended breaks between water changes because I wanted to bring that up. But maybe I'll go every week again until I bring it down. I did a water change on sunday

 

[SlugSnorter]

Yeah I'll do another water change here in a few days. It's probably best if I do once a week again. a few months ago my nitrates were 0 and phos was 0 and that's when the corals were dying so I was taking extended breaks between water changes because I wanted to bring that up. But maybe I'll go every week again until I bring it down. I did a water change on sunday

with SPS you should make sure to do waterchanges either weekly or biweekly if not dosing either way

 

[jda]

I don't use socks since I would never change them fast enough (daily?) to get the non-broken down stuff out and they just would become aerobic filter media.

Your nitrates are likely too high for cyano or dianos to take much of a hold. Nobody knows for sure, but at some point, the higher nitrate growth limits them like a poison. This is the only reason that I can think of to want to have nitrates and phosphates higher than just a trace. Everything else functions much better at lower levels even if it is not totally necessary for many things. Some of your inverts and cleanup crew can really slow down and suffer with no3 above 10-20 as well.

 

[Zbutcher]

with SPS you should make sure to do waterchanges either weekly or biweekly if not dosing either way

Oh I'm definitely dosing sorry I should have mentioned. I have a whole Neptune set up

 

[Zbutcher]

I don't use socks since I would never change them fast enough (daily?) to get the non-broken down stuff out and they just would become aerobic filter media.

Your nitrates are likely too high for cyano or dianos to take much of a hold. Nobody knows for sure, but at some point, the higher nitrate growth limits them like a poison. This is the only reason that I can think of to want to have nitrates and phosphates higher than just a trace. Everything else functions much better at lower levels even if it is not totally necessary for many things. Some of your inverts and cleanup crew can really slow down and suffer with no3 above 10-20 as well.

That's a great note. So you think I should run no filter sock? It's kind of interesting to think though because won't my sump become a detritus trap with a lot of stuff not being filtered out of the water and thus cause nitrates to spike more?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Yeah I'll do another water change here in a few days. It's probably best if I do once a week again. a few months ago my nitrates were 0 and phos was 0 and that's when the corals were dying so I was taking extended breaks between water changes because I wanted to bring that up. But maybe I'll go every week again until I bring it down. I did a water change on sunday

So your nitrates were at 0 when your corals were dying…..not 50

 

[Zbutcher]

So your nitrates were at 0 when your corals were dying…..not 50

Sorry just to be clear, they died at both parameter levels lol. That's why I'm mystified. When they were 0 I thought okay probably low nutrients. Then died when nutrients got higher all the way from 0 no3, 10 no3, 30 no3. I got corals for each and no matter what they still died.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Sorry just to be clear, they died at both parameter levels lol. That's why I'm mystified. When they were 0 I thought okay probably low nutrients. Then died when nutrients got higher all the way from 0 no3, 10 no3, 30 no3. I got corals for each and no matter what they still died.

It’s not your no3 then
I find it hard to believe that 25% intensity of 2 Neptune sky’s is providing 200-300 on a tank your size. I would try to check with a legit par meter like the apogee 510


You have 100w over 180g of water

I have 180w over my 24” 50g cube and I have acros 4” below the water only getting 450 par.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Sorry just to be clear, they died at both parameter levels lol. That's why I'm mystified. When they were 0 I thought okay probably low nutrients. Then died when nutrients got higher all the way from 0 no3, 10 no3, 30 no3. I got corals for each and no matter what they still died.

You need to keep in mind that what your coral is doing today is reflecting what went wrong a month ago.
Stability is the key and if your tank is swinging like that nothing will be happy.

Get the NO3 stable at 10ppm, and after a month or two at that level the coral will stabilize too.

 

[Zbutcher]

It’s not your no3 then
I find it hard to believe that 25% intensity of 2 Neptune sky’s is providing 200-300 on a tank your size. I would try to check with a legit par meter like the apogee 510


You have 100w over 180g of water

I have 180w over my 24” 50g cube and I have acros 4” below the water only getting 450 par.

I would if I had the funds. It only provides that par directly under the light. Which is where the corals are placed. It's drops off from that the further you move out from the center at least when we measured which was with Neptune's par meter.

Maybe it's a lighting think and I'm going to feel dumb as hell if that's the case but I watched the par meter. With him and he has the same set up with more lights then I can afford but his Neptune skies are at 25% and his corals are amazing and all of them grow like mad. So I just emulated his system.

Sorry I know this is probably sounding like I'm being a pain and I'm not trying to fight you or anything I just genuinely don't know what is going on and really want to find out to fix my issue and I really appreciate all the help you all are giving.

 

[Zbutcher]

You need to keep in mind that what your coral is doing today is reflecting what went wrong a month ago.
Stability is the key and if your tank is swinging like that nothing will be happy.

Get the NO3 stable at 10ppm, and after a month or two at that level the coral will stabilize too.

Oooooh so it has a delayed reaction I did not actually know that. Hmm. What is your best recommendation for stabilizing nitrate. Do you recommend running filter socks or none at all?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I would if I had the funds. It only provides that par directly under the light. Which is where the corals are placed. It's drops off from that the further you move out from the center at least when we measured which was with Neptune's par meter.

Maybe it's a lighting think and I'm going to feel dumb as hell if that's the case but I watched the par meter. With him and he has the same set up with more lights then I can afford but his Neptune skies are at 25% and his corals are amazing and all of them grow like mad. So I just emulated his system.

Sorry I know this is probably sounding like I'm being a pain and I'm not trying to fight you or anything I just genuinely don't know what is going on and really want to find out to fix my issue and I really appreciate all the help you all are giving.

You checked it on your tank? Or you watched him par map on his tank?

 

[PeterEde]

I've been fighting high NO3 and now just getting it to 20-30 down from 50+
My LPS and softies have enjoyed the NO3 and only now I've dropped them am I having issues with LPS/Softies
My Goni loved higher NO3 while I have a finger leather that has never popped for me and looks to like it around 30.

I get the feeling if I got to 5-10 most of my current coral would say a big FU.
I will continue to chase the NO3 and see how low I can get. No SPS until I get to 10-15

 

[gbroadbridge]

I've been fighting high NO3 and now just getting it to 20-30 down from 50+
My LPS and softies have enjoyed the NO3 and only now I've dropped them am I having issues with LPS/Softies
My Goni loved higher NO3 while I have a finger leather that has never popped for me and looks to like it around 30.

I get the feeling if I got to 5-10 most of my current coral would say a big FU.
I will continue to chase the NO3 and see how low I can get. No SPS until I get to 10-15

The LPS coral will adjust - it just takes time.

The trick to SPS coral is to put a lot of nutrients into the water, and then export what is not used.
Heavy feeding with heavy export mechanisms in my experience makes for happy coral.