Wrasse Cupramine Treatment

[ViciousDlishus]

I currently have 4 fish in my QT/HT (20g volume). 2 rounds of prazi complete.

Naoko Wrasse
Lubbock Wrasse
Leopard Wrasse
Starry Blenny

I dosed 5 drops of cupramine last night (as opposed to the directions which would ask for 40 drops). Around 18 hours later I checked on them Naoko and Lubbock were not liking things, heavy breathing, lying on bottom. Have seen some additional activity once the lights were on and food was out. Not liking the thought of another dose tonight.

Ive seen some of the local wrasse experts suggest skipping copper. Looking to get some thoughts and potential options.

Ive previously put all my other fish through 2 rounds of prazi and 30 days+ cupramine with no issues. My approach to date is that if Im going as far as managing multiple tanks to quarantine fish and coral (separate) to keep my display disease free I don't want to compromise my efforts by avoiding treatment on specific fish.

I would like to continue with cupramine if possible. Can I do anything to make the cupramine easier on them? Aside from TTM (too much work based on job, time and space) and CP (cant seem to find a source in Canada) are there other suggestions?

 

[Flippers4pups]

I currently have 4 fish in my QT/HT (20g volume). 2 rounds of prazi complete.

Naoko Wrasse
Lubbock Wrasse
Leopard Wrasse
Starry Blenny

I dosed 5 drops of cupramine last night (as opposed to the directions which would ask for 40 drops). Around 18 hours later I checked on them Naoko and Lubbock were not liking things, heavy breathing, lying on bottom. Have seen some additional activity once the lights were on and food was out. Not liking the thought of another dose tonight.

Ive seen some of the local wrasse experts suggest skipping copper. Looking to get some thoughts and potential options.

Ive previously put all my other fish through 2 rounds of prazi and 30 days+ cupramine with no issues. My approach to date is that if Im going as far as managing multiple tanks to quarantine fish and coral (separate) to keep my display disease free I don't want to compromise my efforts by avoiding treatment on specific fish.

I would like to continue with cupramine if possible. Can I do anything to make the cupramine easier on them? Aside from TTM (too much work based on job, time and space) and CP (cant seem to find a source in Canada) are there other suggestions?

Here's a great read on treatment:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

If the wrasses are having problems as you are saying, I would discontinue the cupramine and change their water or move them to a tank that doesn't have it.

@Humblefish? @melypr1985
@4FordFamily

 

[jbeanz24]

I had the same issue with a solorensis wrasse. It was fine in QT for a week. I added a quarter of the recommended copper dose on the evening of the seventh day. Came from work the next day and he was on the bottom of the tank breathing hard. I removed the copper dosed water and replaced however he died the next morning.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

dont dose any more and wait till you decided which route you want to go.
cupramine is ionic copper and wrasses generally have problems with it, chelated copper like coppersafe is better on wrasses. CP is a big no.
other method will be tank transfer.

 

[Flippers4pups]

dont dose any more and wait till you decided which route you want to go.
cupramine is ionic copper and wrasses generally have problems with it, chelated copper like coppersafe is better on wrasses. CP is a big no.
other method will be tank transfer.

I agree, coppersafe is better.

 

[Tanggy]

I QT my leopard, yellow, melanurus and solon for 4 wks. The only one that did not make it was the solon. Died after 2 wks of cupramine. It took me about 10 days to get the cupramine level up to therapeutic level. I just got a harlequin tusk and a Lubbock over the weekend and will be treating them with cupramine when they are eating well.

 

[HotRocks]

I personally would recommend copper power, also a chelated copper. Some of us have found some inconsistent results with coppersafe lately. Copper Power seems to be spot on 2.5ppm concentration if dosed per instructions.

Keep in mind even though directions recommend to dose up to 2.5ppm, the therapuetic level for copper power is indeed 1.5ppm.


If you decide to go that route and need help figuring dosage let me know.

I would also recommend ramping up over 5-7 days as long as your fish aren't showing signs of velvet.

I have a few Wrasse at the 24 day mark now with copper power at 1.75-1.80ppm

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

if you want to continue using cupramine you can but increase dose very very slow.
ionic copper is harder on wrasse compared to chelated but either will work. just go slow.

 

[ViciousDlishus]

Update: after posting I observed the fish closely throughout the day. As time passed and the lights were on longer the fish became quite active ate and the leopord was actually showing activity I hadn't seen since the lfs.

Skipped a day of cupramine continued to monitor. Still eating and still active. Look lathargic in the morning when light first turned on.

This AM I dosed 3 drops. Similar observations in AM but active now. Test is at 0.10 cu.

Tomorrow AM planning on 3 drops.

I am noticing some faded coloring in the morning. Is this something that Wrasse exhibit normally or while in their cocoon?

 

[HotRocks]

Update: after posting I observed the fish closely throughout the day. As time passed and the lights were on longer the fish became quite active ate and the leopord was actually showing activity I hadn't seen since the lfs.

Skipped a day of cupramine continued to monitor. Still eating and still active. Look lathargic in the morning when light first turned on.

This AM I dosed 3 drops. Similar observations in AM but active now. Test is at 0.10 cu.

Tomorrow AM planning on 3 drops.

I am noticing some faded coloring in the morning. Is this something that Wrasse exhibit normally or while in their cocoon?

Very common for Wrasse to be less active and not look good early am. There have been several times I thought I had lost Wrasse because of this in QT. Later in the day I would come home and find them completely normal.

 

[ViciousDlishus]

So as always I had a Homer Simpson moment. Kept dosing cupramine slowly. Testing and not seeing increased levels (thought this was cause of small doses).

I now think it's cause the sand I had in there for the leopord.

I've heard silica sand won't be an issue in qt and won't absorb cupramine. Is this the case? Also heard that silica sand can be sharp. Will this have negative effects on leopord (more so than no sand?)

Here I thought the Wrasse wernt having issues with copper... Le sigh.

 

[HotRocks]

The sand could be your culprit.

It could also be media. What type of media are you using? I have filter floss in my QT that was absorbing quite a bit of copper.

 

[ViciousDlishus]

The sand could be your culprit.

It could also be media. What type of media are you using? I have filter floss in my QT that was absorbing quite a bit of copper.

Egg crate and some netting used to keep the Naoko off the Lubbocks back fot the time being. Other than that the sand is only thing new.

 

[HotRocks]

Egg crate and some netting used to keep the Naoko off the Lubbocks back fot the time being. Other than that the sand is only thing new.

No type of filtration at all? What is housing your biofilter?

 

[ViciousDlishus]

No type of filtration at all? What is housing your biofilter?

Sponges but they haven't been an issue in past cupramine treatments.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

i just skimmed a little on the thread,
using pure silica sand will not absorb copper. a small amount placed in a tupperware will work for species requiring sand in a qt with medication.
i always recommend ceramic media or rings to grow bacteria in, ceramic does not absorb medication as well and doent need to be moved back and forth from dt to qt.

 

[ViciousDlishus]

Lubbock has died. Therapeutic levels were reached Thursday last week. Started being reclusive Monday. Would still come out to eat. Tues and Wednesday eating was an issue. Was going to remove it to a copper free tank but didn't have another heater handy.

Leopard and Naoko haven't shown any distress.

Dropped Lubbock into a cup of fresh water anything look out of ordinary?

 

[Tanggy]

I quarantine a harlequin tusk and a Lubbock a few wks ago with cupramine. Lubbock didn't make it after 2 wks at therapeutic level. Harlequin tusk doing fine still. I'll probably try copper power next time...

 

[ViciousDlishus]

I quarantine a harlequin tusk and a Lubbock a few wks ago with cupramine. Lubbock didn't make it after 2 wks at therapeutic level. Harlequin tusk doing fine still. I'll probably try copper power next time...

Agree. I can't seem to find copper power anywhere though.

 

[Tanggy]

Agree. I can't seem to find copper power anywhere though.

I just ordered mine from amazon a couple of days ago. It arrived today. I recently got a super male lineatus from diver's den. Will be using copper power on him...