Wrasse in Qt questions

[redwingrob40]

Was hoping to get some thoughts on some treatment options. Currently have M. bipartitus, c. Isosceles, c jordani, p. Flavanalis, p. Linopunctus, and p. Cyaneus in qt. They have been together in a 20L for about 2 weeks. They have been through one round of Prazipro, and did a 50% water change yesterday. Today I noticed scratching on a few of the fish and noticed white spots, which I believe are ich. All fish are eating like pigs, and show no other signs of distress other than scratching and the white spots. I have considered copper power and ttm as possible treatment. My worries are that wrasse are sensitive to copper, but with the number of fish I also worry about ammonia with TTM. I do have prime ready to go. Right now I am leaning more towards TTM for safety purposes. All things considered the expense of the extra equipment seem worth it not putting the wrasse through copper. Was hoping for thoughts from the experts. Thanks

 

[HotRocks]

Can you post pics of the wrasse with spots?

Wrasse aren't as sensitive to copper as we used to think. Now that we can treat with chelated copper (copper power) and accurately monitor with the Hanna checker.

 

[redwingrob40]

Can you post pics of the wrasse with spots?

Wrasse aren't as sensitive to copper as we used to think. Now that we can treat with chelated copper (copper power) and accurately monitor with the Hanna checker.

Thanks for your reply. Here are the best Pics I can get but hopefully you can see the white spots on the lineopunctus and Jordani.

I think it’s ich?

Copper power with a Hanna was my initial thoughts, but with all the fish it worries me that one may not do well. You’re statement that wrasse aren’t as sensitive makes me feel safer.

 

[HotRocks]

I wanted to make sure it was ich. Wrasse are generally pretty resistant to ich due to thick mucus coat. So white spots on wrasse scare me (velvet) It definitely looks like ich in the pics and not velvet.

As long as you are methodical with dosing, test daily, keep up on WCs, monitor ammonia and make sure there is heavy agitation of water at surface for oxygen exchange I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well they do in copper.

I do recommend transferring them to a 2nd sterile QT after 14 days instead of running them for 30 days in same tank.

I have never used copper above 1.75ppm-1.80ppm on them just an FYI.

 

[redwingrob40]

I wanted to make sure it was ich. Wrasse are generally pretty resistant to ich due to thick mucus coat. So white spots on wrasse scare me (velvet) It definitely looks like ich in the pics and not velvet.

As long as you are methodical with dosing, test daily, keep up on WCs, monitor ammonia and make sure there is heavy agitation of water at surface for oxygen exchange I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well they do in copper.

I do recommend transferring them to a 2nd sterile QT after 14 days instead of running them for 30 days in same tank.

I have never used copper above 1.75ppm-1.80ppm on them just an FYI.

Thanks again for the reply. Was def hoping for ich over velvet. Main reason I thought ich is because fish were scratching when initially added and I immediately thought fluke that’s why I treated with Prazipro initially. But afetr the water change yesterday and still scratching now white spots today I thought ich. Fish have been eating like pigs the whole time except maybe the first day or two in qt.

My thoughts were to buy the Hanna if I was going to do copper. Just seems to be the most accurate way of keeping dibs on copper levels. Would it be okay to skip the second sterile tank? if I buy a second setup it seems like I might as well just do ttm?

 

[HotRocks]

It's ok to use a single tank. You will need to run the wrasse a full 30 days in therapuetic copper before removing it.

Only downside is copper is hard on immune system. So you are exposing them for 30 days opposed to 10-14.

 

[wesman42]

It's ok to use a single tank. You will need to run the wrasse a full 30 days in therapuetic copper before removing it.

Only downside is copper is hard on immune system. So you are exposing them for 30 days opposed to 10-14.

Why is this? And what does having multiple quarantines do for the length of time in copper? Asking for a friend [emoji851][emoji23]

 

[redwingrob40]

It's ok to use a single tank. You will need to run the wrasse a full 30 days in therapuetic copper before removing it.

Only downside is copper is hard on immune system. So you are exposing them for 30 days opposed to 10-14.

Ok thanks for all of your help you have given me some really good options to think about. Gonna have to make a decision tomorrow... both seem like good options, need to get something going soon so I can get this kicked.

 

[HotRocks]

Why is this? And what does having multiple quarantines do for the length of time in copper? Asking for a friend [emoji851][emoji23]

Copper only kills the free swimming stage of parasites.

Therefore after 10-14 days, the fish is "clean" trophonts have dropped off the fish and began reproduction. 10-14 days there would still be tomonts releasing free swimmers that die instantly in therapuetic copper. So if you move the fish to a sterile tank you have a clean fish and the tomonts releasing free swimmers are left behind in the tank with copper.

Using the same tank, you have to lengthen the time to be sure all tomonts have expired and are no longer releasing free swimmers that can infect the fish.

 

[redwingrob40]

Copper only kills the free swimming stage of parasites.

Therefore after 10-14 days, the fish is "clean" trophonts have dropped off the fish and began reproduction. 10-14 days there would still be tomonts releasing free swimmers that die instantly in therapuetic copper. So if you move the fish to a sterile tank you have a clean fish and the tomonts releasing free swimmers are left behind in the tank with copper.

Using the same tank, you have to lengthen the time to be sure all tomonts have expired and are no longer releasing free swimmers that can infect the fish.

That makes a lot of sense... may be worth the extra expense for the other QT.

 

[redwingrob40]

Ordered some copper power and a Hanna checker today. So hopefully by early next week I can get things started. Thanks for all the input @HotRocks!!!

 

[HotRocks]

Ordered some copper power and a Hanna checker today. So hopefully by early next week I can get things started. Thanks for all the input @HotRocks!!!

Glad to hear it!

 

[redwingrob40]

Noticed some of the fish have white stringy feces as well, so I know Ill have to treat with something like metro. Any suggestions for treatment, I.e can GC and copper power be mixed safely for wrasses? or should I just get some metro and focus and mix to with food while treating with copper? Thanks again for all of your help!!!

 

[HotRocks]

Add GC to the food. It will be much more effective being food soaked than dosed in water.

It can be mixed with copper. I don't like doing that unless it's the only option.

 

[redwingrob40]

Ok, thanks @HotRocks. Any need for focus to help bind the meds to food?Also because its being mixed in food then not as many concerns for the GC mixing with copper? Sorry for all the questions just want to try and treat the safest way possible.