Wrasse QT concerns

Fenzinna · Nov 10, 2016

I have a leopard wrasse, black cap, and scopas tang in a 20L.

I believe I'm having ammonia issues which recently caused my fish to stop eating.

Wrasse is starting to become lazy and swimming slowly.

Upon intro on Sunday I placed a small container of "live sand" from a new bag which I rinsed out before placing in the tank.

I think the sand is causing the ammonia issues. I'm feeding very small amounts to the tank. All fish were eating three days ago. Today they are not.

Ammonia checks out with API at .5ppm but I've used a whole cap of prime this morning to bind the ammonia. Tank also had been dosed with CP.

Can I remove the sand from the tank for him to be ok? What's my move? Tank has 4 elbows in it. It's hospital style.

Leopard wrasse has developed frayed fins.

melypr1985 · Nov 10, 2016

I don't think the sand is causing the ammonia issues. I would leave it in there. I would never advise using prime or any ammonia reducer with any medication. period. There can be bad reactions between the two, and while some people report not having those problems, it's still a risk. Frequent water changes are in order here.

melypr1985 · Nov 10, 2016

Oh! Is there a powerfilter on this tank? Did you add any bacteria to the filter before adding the fish? Either with a seeded sponge or a bottled bacteria product?

Fenzinna · Nov 10, 2016

No. powerhead. Bubbler. Heater only.

melypr1985 · Nov 10, 2016

Fenzinna said:
No. powerhead. Bubbler. Heater only.

That would be the problem then. You'll want something in there to help break down the ammonia.... unless you're planning on doing TTM that is. If this is a 30 day QT then you'll need a powerfilter of some sort that is seeded with bacteria to help with the ammonia or else you will be plagued by it the whole time and likely lose a few fish.

Triggreef · Nov 10, 2016

Definitely ammonia. Even .25 can cause damage. Water changes will be your only option. You'll probly have to do it every other day.

Fenzinna · Nov 10, 2016

Triggreef said:
Definitely ammonia. Even .25 can cause damage. Water changes will be your only option. You'll probly have to do it every other day.

I was figuring as much. Leave the sand then? Planning 5 gal change tonight and then another in the AM.

Humblefish · Nov 11, 2016

Just my 2 cents: I've tried adding sand from an established DT to QT, and it just doesn't work out. The sand smells bad and that causes the QT to have an odor. Not sure if you are having the same issue using "live sand" from a bag. I only use dry sand nowadays.

Fenzinna · Nov 11, 2016

But did it cause lack of appetite?

Wrasse also seems to have developed a red spot on his underside.

eleet · Nov 11, 2016

The ammonia will cause appetite loss. He needs sand to burrow in. Red spot I do t want to guess without pics.

Fenzinna · Nov 11, 2016

Well, I did another water change this morning of 5 gallons. Tang and black cap appear to have eaten but wrasse was buried.

I also placed a handful of my siporax media in the QT for biofilter. It's been in my sump for about 7 months and I heavily feed my tank.

Ammonia seems to have read between .5-.25 this morning. I'll be doing another tonight if I can.

I can't get a good photo of the wrasse because he shies away from me when I tried to take a photo. I can't tell if it's his body accents or damage but it doesn't look normal.

Humblefish · Nov 11, 2016

Are any chemicals (like copper) in the water? Because that will throw off your ammonia reading, causing a false positive.

Fenzinna · Nov 11, 2016

Well, the water changes should have rumored a good percentage of the CP used and a capful of prime is also in the water prior to the two 30% water changes. I'm assuming either of those are the culprit.

bknapp · Nov 13, 2016

Wouldn't an ammonia binder such as Prime cause issues while using CP? Or is that more of a concern with copper?

Fenzinna · Nov 13, 2016

People seem to use it together. It advise against it.

Humblefish · Nov 13, 2016

CP + Prime is fine.

Copper + Prime = toxic.

bknapp · Nov 13, 2016

Awesome. Wasn't completely sure.

bknapp · Nov 13, 2016

Awesome. Wasn't completely sure.

immafishguy · Nov 13, 2016

Humblefish said:
CP + Prime is fine.

Copper + Prime = toxic.

What is CP referring to? Why does the copper plus prime make water toxic? I would think that the prime would just neutralize it somewhat if anything?

Humblefish · Nov 13, 2016

immafishguy said:
What is CP referring to? Why does the copper plus prime make water toxic? I would think that the prime would just neutralize it somewhat if anything?

CP = Chloroquine phosphate: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

A water conditioner, such as Prime, has the potential to change Cupramine (for example) from the safe Cu2+ form to a very toxic Cu+ form. This information comes directly from Seachem Tech Support, who makes both Prime & Cupramine. This negative interaction doesn't seem to be as severe with chelated copper (ex. Coppersafe), but I still wouldn't chance it.