Wrasse Swimbladder Issue

Marquiseo · May 28, 2015

So one of my wrasses has a swimmer bladder issue and sadly it's the most expensive one, Lineatus super make. It. Started with eating normally for weeks, then it could not keep right-side up. Now it's at the point where it is completely upside down. It's alive breathing normally. Here's what I have done:

- Freshwater dipped for 4 mins (no parasites
-quarantined
-started day 1 of cipro
- attempted to hold him up right in my hand to try and and get the bubble trapped to reposition.
- dipped in and out of the water in hopes that the bubble will be expelled

Nothing so far. Any advice?

Humblefish · May 28, 2015

Swim Bladder Disorder/fish constipation:

Symptoms - Both of these have identical symptoms, but fish with swim bladder disorder generally do not survive. So your best bet is to treat for constipation and hope for the best. The fish will swim erratically, and appear to have difficulty maintaining its equilibrium. It may appear buoyant at the surface of the water, sometimes swimming in circles.

Treatment options - Feed 1 or 2 peeled boiled green peas (same kind you & I eat). Repeat daily even if the fish’s condition improves. The fiber contained in the peas will help “push things out.” If dealing with a fish that refuses to eat, you can try Epsom salt (as a laxative) or an antibiotic such as Kanamycin (aka Seachem Kanaplex) that lists diarrhea as a possible side effect.

Humblefish · May 28, 2015

Not much you can do for swim bladder disorder (very common in wrasses btw). I've been able to save a PBT with a bloated tummy on multiple occasions by either feeding a pea, or treating with Epsom salt/Kanaplex in a QT.

You also might want to try what was recommended here by hedgedrew: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2448426

Marquiseo · May 28, 2015

Thanks. I will have to try the epsom salt. He hasn't eaten since Friday of last week if I am correct. He is still alive and wiggling quite often now. He has been trying to turn right-side-up on his own. I won't be able to do the needle decompression because of his dark coloration. I think that will only work on small fish and lightly colored fish.

zibba · May 28, 2015

I literally just came here to make almost the exact same post. Same issues, same fish. Super male lineatus.

Had it in QT for a short period of time and it was eating and behaving really well.

Added to the main display about 4-6 weeks ago.

2-days ago I came home and observed the fish swimming at really strange 45/30-degree angles. At first I thought it was just flashing with the Rhomboid but then it continued. The behavior continued and got worse last night. The fish was spiraling and really looked awful -- at times swimming upside-down. Very similar behavior to what @Mike&Terry mentioned in a local form here (found that thread with a google search) and as stated above.

I seriously thought that the fish was a gonner. It lodged itself under a rock and we turned the lights out for the evening hoping that the fish would just go to bed. This morning the Lineatus made another appearance and ate. The lights started ramping up and it continued to spiral and list itself around the tank. We decided to turn off the tank lights again, hoping it would just cocoon itself for the rest of the day/night and relax.

If we can, we'll catch it out from the tank and try treating with Kanaplex or the hedgedrew mix and feed with peas. Either way, I think we'll try the pea trick if we can get it to eat. I'm sure all of the other fish will eat it too so things could get messy, lol.

Anyway, I guess I'll keep y'all posted.

Out of curiosity, @Marquiseo, where did you get your fish from?

Marquiseo · May 28, 2015

zibba said:
I literally just came here to make almost the exact same post. Same issues, same fish. Super male lineatus.

Had it in QT for a short period of time and it was eating and behaving really well.

Added to the main display about 4-6 weeks ago.

2-days ago I came home and observed the fish swimming at really strange 45/30-degree angles. At first I thought it was just flashing with the Rhomboid but then it continued. The behavior continued and got worse last night. The fish was spiraling and really looked awful -- at times swimming upside-down. Very similar behavior to what @Mike&Terry mentioned in a local form here (found that thread with a google search) and as stated above.

I seriously thought that the fish was a gonner. It lodged itself under a rock and we turned the lights out for the evening hoping that the fish would just go to bed. This morning the Lineatus made another appearance and ate. The lights started ramping up and it continued to spiral and list itself around the tank. We decided to turn off the tank lights again, hoping it would just cocoon itself for the rest of the day/night and relax.

If we can, we'll catch it out from the tank and try treating with Kanaplex or the hedgedrew mix and feed with peas. Either way, I think we'll try the pea trick if we can get it to eat. I'm sure all of the other fish will eat it too so things could get messy, lol.

Anyway, I guess I'll keep y'all posted.

Out of curiosity, @Marquiseo, where did you get your fish from?

Mine has been swimming funny since last week Sunday. It stopped eating last Friday. It is alive and its breathing is very steady which gives me hope. I ordered him through a LFS. It's not a batch issue if your hinting at that. Another local has one as well from the same order and his doesn't have this issue; however, his did break its back from being started so its now a hunchback. Where did you order yours from? I can ask my LFS did he get it from the same place.

zibba · May 28, 2015

The fact that yours is still alive is a good sign, I'd expect. Please keep me posted on how yours does.

Yes, that's what I was hinting at. Thought it might have been a collection issue. Ours came from BlueZoo.

Humblefish · May 28, 2015

Just to add to the conversation, here's an older thread with the same wrasse/same problem: http://www.cincyreef.com/showthread.php?36743-What-s-up-w-wrasse-s-and-swim-bladder-problems

The people on that thread seem to believe it's a collection issue. The fish not being properly decompressed. I then did some digging and found 3 different websites that talk about Lineatus being primarily a deep water species. See below.

The "crown jewel" of fairy wrasses and most likely the wrasse people are discussing when they mention the "holy grail" of wrasses is Cirrhilabrus lineatus, or the Lined fairy wrasse. It is most commonly found deeper than 100 feet along the Great Barrier Reef on the outer reef slopes.

Sources:

http://www.aquariumcreationsonline.net/ReefSafeWrasses_saltwaterfish.html

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/hcs3/

http://www.freshmarine.com/lineatus-fairy-wrasse.html

zibba · May 28, 2015

Thanks for the links, Humblefish.

Assuming we can catch the fish and start treatment, do you have a protocol for epsom salts?

Humblefish · May 28, 2015

zibba said:
Thanks for the links, Humblefish.

Assuming we can catch the fish and start treatment, do you have a protocol for epsom salts?

1 tablespoon per 5 gals ... repeat once if needed. Dosing Epsom salt is a "reef safe" treatment, as it is just magnesium sulfate.

Mike&Terry · May 28, 2015

Improper decompression or pinning can cause swim bladder problems and lead to bacterial infections. I have never been able to get a fairy wrasse to eat peeled peas - good luck with that - even tried soaking in garlic and selcon. I have had success treating with both furan 2 and erythromycin, (not in combination) but you have to catch the signs VERY early. The wrasses that I didn't treat in time continued to eat (and poo) until the end with hand feedings which in my mind kind of rules out a blockage.

I had a Halichoeres chrysus that came down with similar symptoms out of the blue... He hid for a couple of days and was fine when he reappeared which makes me believe he more than likely swallowed something that caused a temporary blockage which worked itself out.

4FordFamily · May 28, 2015

This is all too common in fairy wrasse ime

4FordFamily · May 28, 2015

This is all too common ime. I hope they pull through

Marquiseo · May 28, 2015

I am currently treating with the epsom salt and Ciprofloxacin. It's day 2 of Cipro and day 1 of epsom salt. Will do a WC tomorrow in the quarantine add the doses again. Hopefully this fixes the issue with him being upside down.

zibba · May 29, 2015

Humblefish said:
1 tablespoon per 5 gals ... repeat once if needed. Dosing Epsom salt is a "reef safe" treatment, as it is just magnesium sulfate.

Thanks! Yep, have plenty of bulk mag sulf on hand so should be able to handle that.

Mike&Terry said:
Improper decompression or pinning can cause swim bladder problems and lead to bacterial infections. I have never been able to get a fairy wrasse to eat peeled peas - good luck with that - even tried soaking in garlic and selcon. I have had success treating with both furan 2 and erythromycin, (not in combination) but you have to catch the signs VERY early. The wrasses that I didn't treat in time continued to eat (and poo) until the end with hand feedings which in my mind kind of rules out a blockage.

I had a Halichoeres chrysus that came down with similar symptoms out of the blue... He hid for a couple of days and was fine when he reappeared which makes me believe he more than likely swallowed something that caused a temporary blockage which worked itself out.

Thanks for chiming in. We weren't able to catch the fish tonight. Will try again tomorrow.

Marquiseo said:
I am currently treating with the epsom salt and Ciprofloxacin. It's day 2 of Cipro and day 1 of epsom salt. Will do a WC tomorrow in the quarantine add the doses again. Hopefully this fixes the issue with him being upside down.

Best of luck. Fingers crossed for you and your fish.

evolved · May 29, 2015

Humblefish said:
Just to add to the conversation, here's an older thread with the same wrasse/same problem: http://www.cincyreef.com/showthread.php?36743-What-s-up-w-wrasse-s-and-swim-bladder-problems

The people on that thread seem to believe it's a collection issue. The fish not being properly decompressed. I then did some digging and found 3 different websites that talk about Lineatus being primarily a deep water species. See below.

Both lineatus and rhomboidalis are moderately deep, and collection issues do happen (and usually come in batches).
A couple years back, there was a 6 month period where pretty much all the rhomboids being collected faced the same issue.

4FordFamily · May 29, 2015

evolved said:
A couple years back, there was a 6 month period where pretty much all the rhomboids being collected faced the same issue.

That's really sad. What a waste of life

Marquiseo · May 30, 2015

Update:
Today will be day 4 of Ciprofloxacin and day 3 of Epsom Salt. I will have to do a WC then re-dose. It looks like he pooped which looked stringy white. I had upped the dose of epsom salt yesterday and also upped the dosage of Cipro from (1) 250mg pill to (3) 250mg pills. Also, it looks like he did a mucus cocoon last night which he hasn't done since I have had him. He is still upside down though. I may have to consider the needle decompression method but where would I get a need from? He won't last another week without food.

Marquiseo · May 30, 2015

Update:

I got a box of 1cc 28gauge needles from CVS Pharmacy. They wouldn't sell me a single syringe..... I will attempt to decompress it in a little bit. Wish me luck!

Humblefish · May 30, 2015

Might want to add metronidazole to the mix if you're seeing stringy white poop. You might still be able to find an 18 gauge needle at a drug store (or medical supply depot.) Or maybe try a farm store or vet. There's also good ol' Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s?rh=n:318120011,p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:5738908011