wrasse with lumpy gut

salty joe · Apr 20, 2024

My red coris wrasse has had a lumpy gut for a month or two. I've had for about 2 1/2 years. I feed pellets in the morning and whole shellfish in the evening. It seems fine but I'm concerned. It's not quite as bad as this picture shows it to be.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 20, 2024

salty joe Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

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- How long have you had the fish with the condition?
- Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
Current water quality measurements
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salty joe · Apr 20, 2024

I did not treat any fish with anything.

I've had this wrasse for about 2 1/2 years, he's had that lumpy gut for maybe a couple months.

Ph 7.8-8.0, temp 77-79, salinity 35 ppt. I have not checked alk or calcium or mag lately, I don't have corals yet. I can check if you want me to.

The wrasse seems fine but the lumpy gut concerns me. All other fish, lieutenant tang, purple tang, copper band butterfly, foxface, flameback angel, pair of adult blue ring angels, three clowns and a diamond goby all seem fine. 700 gallon tank with tons of hiding spots.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 20, 2024

salty joe said:
I did not treat any fish with anything.

I've had this wrasse for about 2 1/2 years, he's had that lumpy gut for maybe a couple months.

Ph 7.8-8.0, temp 77-79, salinity 35 ppt. I have not checked alk or calcium or mag lately, I don't have corals yet. I can check if you want me to.

The wrasse seems fine but the lumpy gut concerns me. All other fish, lieutenant tang, purple tang, copper band butterfly, foxface, flameback angel, pair of adult blue ring angels, three clowns and a diamond goby all seem fine. 700 gallon tank with tons of hiding spots.

I can't tell from the picture, is the lump lopsided? That is, does it show more on one side than the other? If so, this could be a tumor. If it is more symetrical, then it may be from eating too much (gorging) or possibly constipation/impaction.

One observation - the wrasse still has its juvenile coloration - that seems odd after 2 1/2 years, I'd think that it should have begun the transition to the intermediate color phase - with some blue highlights around the tail, are you seeing that?

Jay

salty joe · Apr 20, 2024

The lumpiness is symmetrical.
It has a bit of blue at the tail but it has for months. It was tiny when I got it, not much longer or thicker than a small willow leaf, and the white ran top to bottom.
I also wondered what's taking so long to transition, I did read on R2R about a red coris that took 4 years! He thought it died because it suddenly disappeared, then after 3 or 4 days it came out and transitioned.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 21, 2024

salty joe said:
The lumpiness is symmetrical.
It has a bit of blue at the tail but it has for months. It was tiny when I got it, not much longer or thicker than a small willow leaf, and the white ran top to bottom.
I also wondered what's taking so long to transition, I did read on R2R about a red coris that took 4 years! He thought it died because it suddenly disappeared, then after 3 or 4 days it came out and transitioned.

O.K. with it being symetrical, it probably isn't a tumor or an abscess. There is not a lot you can do for constipation/bloating in marine fish. You'll hear all sorts of things like adding Epsom salts or feeding the fish peas. These are freshwater fish remedies, and do not work for marine fish.

The swelling here looks lower down, where the fish's intestines are. That's what is leading me down the path of thinking this is gorging or a blockage in the gut. There are two other causes of abdominal swelling - ascites (fluid in the belly) and edema (fluid in all tissues). Both of these are caused by liver or kidney failure and are not treatable.

The best I can tell you is to withhold food for 24 hours and see if the swelling subsides. If so, then the fish is just gorging on food for some reason.

salty joe · Apr 21, 2024

OK thanks, fingers crossed.

salty joe · Apr 22, 2024

My wrasse still has a swollen gut, so probably organ damage or blockage.

Is this from poor diet? I feed New Spectrum and TDO pellets in the morning and whole shellfish in the evening. I dose 1 1/2 liters phyto daily, there is a fair amount of bugs and worms. I occasionally feed live white worms. I also feed nori but I've never seen the wrasse eat nori.

The wrasse is acting normally, flipping over shells looking for bugs, etc. If the problem is constipation, do you think feeding oily food might help?

Jay Hemdal · Apr 22, 2024

salty joe said:
My wrasse still has a swollen gut, so probably organ damage or blockage.

Is this from poor diet? I feed New Spectrum and TDO pellets in the morning and whole shellfish in the evening. I dose 1 1/2 liters phyto daily, there is a fair amount of bugs and worms. I occasionally feed live white worms. I also feed nori but I've never seen the wrasse eat nori.

The wrasse is acting normally, flipping over shells looking for bugs, etc. If the problem is constipation, do you think feeding oily food might help?

Typically, froze adult brine shrimp is a good "laxative". Fatty foods like mysids can make the issue worse.

salty joe · Apr 22, 2024

Thanks, I'll try frozen brine shrimp. I'll let you know how it goes.

salty joe · Aug 20, 2024

Look how much worse my poor wrasse is. He still is acting completely normal. I sure wish it would get better...

Bacon and Eggs · Aug 20, 2024

Well I’m a doctor, but not a fish doctor, so im probably not much use. I’ll just speak in general medical terms. I venture to say you can exclude an intestinal obstruction. Our doc here mentioned ascites. That could be from liver disease and/or tumor which can result in ascites. A tumor by itself could be symmetrical as well, benign or malignant. A tumor that large wether benign or malignant would likely be causing serious issues do to mass effect on important structures. Unfortunately, it may all be academic at this point. Hoping for the best for your little guy, but seems to be trending the wrong way. Glad to hear he seems acting fairly normal. Maybe there is still some time left. Sorry I can’t give you any guidance. Fingers crossed.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 21, 2024

salty joe said:
Look how much worse my poor wrasse is. He still is acting completely normal. I sure wish it would get better...

Wow - that's been going on for quite some time now. I think you can rule out a blockage - that would have either resolved itself by getting passed, or it would have proven fatal by now. I think that ascites caused by organ damage would also have ended with the fish dying by now.

That leaves egg binding or a tumor. This fish has juvenile coloration, so I would rule out egg binding. That leaves some sort of tumor as the "best guess". The gradual worsening of the visible symptoms without development of general symptoms also seems to indicate that.

Of course, there isn't any way to successfully resolve that in a fish's abdomen.

salty joe · Aug 21, 2024

I guess I'll wait until it can't move well and then euthanize the poor fish. It's still lightening fast.

salty joe · Sep 10, 2024

Well that poor thing finally died. When I cut him open, there was a grayish bubble that deflated as I tried to peel the skin back. I'm thinking intestine. No tumor or enlarged organ that I could see.