WXM Module Discontinued By Neptune Systems

[Mr. Azwell]

I’m also into another very expensive hobby, astrophotography. In that hobby there is a common communication protocol that was implemented by universities, observatories and manufacturers which ended up mandating a common communication protocol for telescope pointing, focusing, image acquisition, camera control, etc. this piece of software is called ASCOM and all manufacturers of said equipment either use the protocol or their products die on the market. This makes it easy for the entity (university, observatory or hobbyist) to reap the benefits of being able to use any software to control equipment, perform tasks and even create customizable scripts for complete control.

This needs to exist in our hobby as well.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I’m also into another very expensive hobby, astrophotography. In that hobby there is a common communication protocol that was implemented by universities, observatories and manufacturers which ended up mandating a common communication protocol for telescope pointing, focusing, image acquisition, camera control, etc. this piece of software is called ASCOM and all manufacturers of said equipment either use the protocol or their products die on the market. This makes it easy for the entity (university, observatory or hobbyist) to reap the benefits of being able to use any software to control equipment, perform tasks and even create customizable scripts for complete control.

This needs to exist in our hobby as well.

Unfortunately for us, we have to agree on a a standard. And there isn't a consensus on which platform to use.

It appears that other than the trademark ASCOM, the software is open source.

That's the equivalent of our community adopting ReefPi as the standard and hope manufacturer of reef equipment get on board and adapt their gear to run on that platform.

I don't see that happening... ever.

 

[robbyg]

That's the equivalent of our community adopting ReefPi as the standard and hope manufacturer of reef equipment get on board and adapt their gear to run on that platform.

I don't see that happening... ever.

It's a shame but I fear your right. The CPU and memory etc that you can get for the ReefPi is years ahead of any of the controllers on the market today. The same pH/ORP/Temp/Salinity and even Oxygen probes that are on the market today could easily be used by the Reefpi. They also of course have their own powerbars and float switches. What they don't have is market confidence. That is going to be hard to gain because their is no number to call when your having an issue.

My advice to the Reefpi community is to still keep on doing what your doing but also shift a large part of your effort toward areas that are not already perfected by the big three but are instead in the early stages of development. My advice is to stop chasing them and instead go around them in areas they are just starting in. Areas like water testing. Can the Reefpi guys build an automatic Alkalinity tester or a nitrate tester that is simple and small. I have watched the Trident run and its nothing more than a precision dosing pump, about six pinch valves and a photo receptor watching a cuvette while dripping reagent until the color goes from light yellow to blue. If ReefPi hardware developers can build products like that and prove that they work and work well when matched against Hanna and other test kits then people would buy into the platform and pretty soon these owners would add in a Temp probe, then a pH probe and in a few months it's like oh heck this software has all these unused features so let me just try a powerbar since everything else has been working good so far. This is how an open source company can get ahead in this market. The other bonus is that they cannot regulate it if someone makes a plugin that happens to control all ETM products via the already built in Raspberry pi Bluetooth module.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Maybe. Do you remember their Vetra pump launch by any chance? Or how about the more recent G5 launch? Pretty sure a quick search will yield enough to say that while maybe they build nice products their launch of new products hasn't fared well. Well, I wouldn't try and launch humans into low earth orbit just yet.

Edit: Yes - their engineering team fixed both issues. No doubt they stand behind their products. However, to say that they build superior quality products is a fishing tale.

That's not a fair assessment, the manufacturers that cater to this hobby don't have the resources to test thousands of units quietly through beta testing without getting bashed publicly.

Beta testers need to do a better job and understand their role. Too many times I read or hear someone boasting about how they got [insert reef company] [insert newest product] before everyone else and dont care to test it passed taking pictures and telling everyone how cool they are.

Even if a new product slips into public light, these companies should have confidence in their beta testers to bring problems to them before the unit goes into full production.

And that falls on both parties, if you throw your hat into the ring to be a beta tester, be prepared to do work and if you're the company you need to do a better job selecting individuals to be part of the program. I understand that's hard because you simply cant vet every one wanting to join and you don't want to pull hobbyists solely from these forums.

Ultimately it's the companies responsible but it comes right back to limited resources. Which is why we see all these problems at launch and read comments like, "wait a year before purchasing so they can work out all the bugs" or "The hobbyist is doing the R&D work for them"

There's plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Edit: and that beta tester that hyped up a product full of flaws just raised everyone's expectations without even knowing how good or bad the product is.

 

[User1]

That's not a fair assessment, the manufacturers that cater to this hobby don't have the resources to test thousands of units quietly through beta testing without getting bashed publicly.

Beta testers need to do a better job and understand their role. Too many times I read or hear someone boasting about how they got [insert reef company] [insert newest product] before everyone else and dont care to test it passed taking pictures and telling everyone how cool they are.

Even if a new product slips into public light, these companies should have confidence in their beta testers to bring problems to them before the unit goes into full production.

And that falls on both parties, if you throw your hat into the ring to be a beta tester, be prepared to do work and if you're the company you need to do a better job selecting individuals to be part of the program. I understand that's hard because you simply cant vet every one wanting to join and you don't want to pull hobbyists solely from these forums.

Ultimately it's the companies responsible but it comes right back to limited resources. Which is why we see all these problems at launch and read comments like, "wait a year before purchasing so they can work out all the bugs" or "The hobbyist is doing the R&D work for them"

There's plenty of blame to go around.

We are talking about a product launch and not the beta test. They are not the same. In any case my replay was talking about the Vectra pumps, issues after launch, and subsequent redesign. Also the G5 issues with cracked covers and loud fans. This was only in response to superior products comment and nothing more. I believe I also said that ecotech support was good, stood by their products, fixed what they needed, etc.

You are right - this isn't unique to ecotech. I recall GM having issues with their corvette cam shafts seizing, Ford with their transmissions overheating due to no coolers on the base GT350 and going into limp mode, etc. It really was just a comment on superior that probably made me reply.

I do know they, ecotech, make great products although I personally do not own any of them based on those I do know who use them. And if there is testing going on that again you are right - hopefully people provide valuable feedback and information...

Edit: since you specifically mentioned fair assessment - I was trying to reply that I felt it was fair. It could be we just disagree. Hopefully that is ok This isn't me right sort of thing. Just an opinion.

 

[ReefingwithO]

I don't understand why people are getting so upset about a company (Ecotech) making decisions that best for them. Neptune Systems has or would do the same thing. (Remember when they said they wouldn't leave the users of the previous controller behind and then boom, the Trident comes out - and the explanation was that the old tech couldn't support it and they needed to move forward - so why complain when another company does it?

As far as I know, The DOS, Cor15, Trident, and WAV pumps only work with Neptune's controller.

This is not an Ecotech vs Neptune or one brand vs another - Its an industry trend - the time of having one centralized controller is fading. As the hobby grows beyond Geeks and Reef Nerds, we need easier and simpler to attract and keep new people - and what is simpler than pulling out your phone and controlling your lights and pumps.

Ecotech, Neptune, GHL, Coralvue Hydros, probably Red Sea and Maxspect- a number of companies are going their own route when it comes to control. Kessil came out with a new light and it's not Apex compatible.

 

[ca1ore]

The wonderful thing about standards is there are so many to choose from ....

 

[burton14e7]

Care to link these reports of people bricking their devices due to downgrading mobius firmware on eco-tech devices to work with wxm ? or are you just repeating what someone with a agenda claiming it is a major issue.

Mine is bricked and I followed their directions. Just opened a support ticket. Kind of frustrated as I already have 3 MP40s and bought the fourth one without reading online that I should have looked for an older one. I thought buying a MP40 was buying an MP40. I wish they would have made their update backwards compatible without having to do anything extra regardless of how easy as it carries a chance of failing when the end user is doing it.

No big deal though, they're support has always been great so I'm sure i'll get it resolved and my other 3 MP40s are still going.

I'm also running a G5 XR30 on mobius and two G4 XR15s on Apex. It is really annoying that to change the spectrum to to take pictures I just hit a toggle in Apex for the G4s but I haven't figured out how to do the same in Mobius so my pictures look funny these days.

 

[ReefingwithO]

Ive bricked a couple of devices trying to downgrade and it’s usually down to not following instructions properly. Do one at a time. But Ecotech will send you new chips and it’s an easy swap to get them fixed.

i was on the beta test team so it could be that also.

 

[MnFish1]

So watching Neptune’s Live stream last night, Terrence announced that the WXM is being discontinued. It’s been around almost as long as the Apex Classic! He explained that basically the writing has been on the wall for a while and EcoTech has made it clear they don’t want their products to work with 3rd parties. I had a feeling this would happen one day after EcoTech refused to allow the WXM control the Vectra (even though it could) . Then with Versa and Now G5 lights they are Bluetooth only.


For me, I would much prefer a product that is open to other platforms and has as many Integration possibilities as possible. I avoided a Vectra pump for this very reason. (Even after Tim in interviews stated it would work with third parties at launch)

I like to have complex scheduling routines and be able to trigger modes from one source (apex), one dashboard to rule them all. Now knowing that the MP10, 40, 60 are now going this same route where it can’t be controlled by third party platforms is very disappointing.

It’s very disappointing to me that EcoTech Is going this route. They absolutely make quality products, But this is a deal breaker for me and will cause me to consider other products in the future.

Maybe I’m the only one. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

I use the Echotech interface. Have always liked it - sold my WXM module more than a year ago. Having more than one system avoids problems (backup, etc) - I have no problem with mine - had multiple problems with Apex - and Echotech. None since merely using the equipment that 'came in the box'.

 

[burton14e7]

Ive bricked a couple of devices trying to downgrade and it’s usually down to not following instructions properly. Do one at a time. But Ecotech will send you new chips and it’s an easy swap to get them fixed.

i was on the beta test team so it could be that also.

No doubt it's my fault! I probably missed something in the instructions but figured going airplane mode was the tricky one that people mess up.

 

[reefcadet]

cant use feed mode now with a echo tech battery backup plugged into mp10

 

[TheHarold]

cant use feed mode now with a echo tech battery backup plugged into mp10

Could with a little bit of DIY. Just have a normally closed relay, that the apex opens during feed mode. Maybe powered via the 24v accesory port, or use a regular outlet.

 

[Trickman2]

Yes, this just sucks and it will cost Ecotech and Neptune down the line.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Yes, this just sucks and it will cost Ecotech and Neptune down the line.

Doubt it will cost them anything, the only losers in this are the customers.

 

[robbyg]

Doubt it will cost them anything, the only losers in this are the customers.

It will hurt them because a certain percentage of customers are looking for a controller that can control their Ecotech equipment so now they might look elsewhere eg GHL. Others may decide that they don't need a controller at all at this point and just use Mobuis, after all It has your Lights, Powerheads. Return Pump and Dosing Pumps covered.

 

[Water Dog]

So, has anyone successfully downgraded a new Vortech pump so they can use it with their old WXM? I’ve heard a bunch of experiences of people bricking their controller in attempts to downgrade, but have yet to hear of anyone actually successfully downgrading their Vortech software... anyone?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I just received my back up wxm module in mail Today got it from eBay. I’m not ready to switch them to mobius yet.

 

[NeptunePaul Verified Sponsor]

So, has anyone successfully downgraded a new Vortech pump so they can use it with their old WXM? I’ve heard a bunch of experiences of people bricking their controller in attempts to downgrade, but have yet to hear of anyone actually successfully downgrading their Vortech software... anyone?

Yes, customers have been successful with the "rollback" (I don't like the word downgrade ). Like with anything you'll typically hear much more about when it doesn't work versus when it does work. ETM does post some suggestions about what will make the rollback more successful, but basically says put your phone in airplane mode, then turn on BT, and make sure the screen sleep is turned off (so the screen stays on all the time).